If you’ve ever questioned “why do I have to do business this way,” then today’s episode is for you! Join my lovely guest, business coach Kate Wright, as we talk about ditching corporate life, throwing away the business rule book, and unlearning the way we’ve been conditioned to believe business (and life should be.) 

In other words, learning to become the rulemaker of your life! 

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PEOPLE & RESOURCES MENTIONED

Kate Wright MBA on LinkedIn

Hayley Maxwell  00:00

Well, howdy, howdy, and welcome to episode 17 of the fierce impact podcast. And it’s such a delight to be hanging out with you. I so appreciate you taking the time to listen in. And I really truly hope that you always get some great takeaways, tips and new perspectives to consider within your own business context. So thank you so much for being here with me today. Now, this week, I’ve got a really great conversation with business coach Kate, Wright. And we talked all about ditching corporate life throwing away the business and life rulebook, unlearning business conditioning and doing business the way that feels right to you. And I absolutely love this conversation. And I really loved Kate’s raw honesty and enthusiasm for becoming the rule maker in your life. So before we dive into it, let me tell you a little bit about Kate. Kate Wright MBA is the heart, soul face and guts of Generate with Kate, a small but global business revamping studio, helping business owners to make impact and money doing their best work in their best way. With her blunt but kind approach. She invites you to question everything to make a plan so you can quit things you hate, and to do what you want. So without further ado, here’s our conversation. Welcome to the Fierce Impact podcast. Kate,

Kate Wright  01:36

Thank you so much for having me, Haley. I’m really excited to be here.

Hayley Maxwell  01:39

Yeah, it’s my pleasure. And I’m really excited to talk to you because I love what you share about having your own pathway in business and finding your own kind of feet and really sort of standing up for sort of what you believe and what you want to do so. But what I would like to start off with is, would you mind just telling us a little bit more about yourself and what your business is, and obviously how you sort of got to this this point in your business.

Kate Wright  02:07

So I’ll try and make the short version. So I’m a corporate escapee. So I used to work in corporate doing sales and marketing, and I had all the fancy things that I thought I wanted. I remember when I was in customer service, I saw somebody in airport and she was wearing a business suit. And she had a drag bag. And she looked like she was going to some really important meeting and I was like, I want to be that. And then I was there. And I had these, you know, like an expense account and the company car was really cool. And household name clients and a $10 million portfolio. And lots of that was super, super fun. But actually, I was away from my family a lot. And we were largely miserable. I guess I realized, after all the commuting and things. So then I decided I had to get out of this. And I didn’t know how to and it was a very long process of discovery for me, like, how does this work? How do I how do I live and be a breadwinner without working for someone else? And then I started with the Four Hour Workweek by Tim Ferriss. Then I was like, wow, okay, cool. And then I remember saying to my husband, this is years ago, and I said, Do you know this, these people called digital nomads, and they are location independent people, and they work and they make money, but they don’t go to a job. And he’s like that, how and I was like, I don’t know, but I’m gonna find out. And I’m happy to say that I have, and it’s the best thing I could have ever done. So when I guess I’m a business coach or a business advisor. And I’ve been helping people a lot lately, with making the pivot, or just readjusting things, or recalibrating, or finding ways to be resilient in the face of all the disruption and stuff that we’ve had in the last couple of years. So quite often, it’s people just starting out, or people who’ve started out and then the two or so years down the track, and they’re like, hold on a minute, how do I what am I doing my doing this right? How do I get clients? Why isn’t this working kind of thing. I tend to work mostly with women, because I think we do business differently, we have a different way of approaching things. I have a lot of people who come to me and say that they’ve they’ve tried a certain way of doing things. And that didn’t work so that they’re looking for some a different approach something that’s not just the traditional way of approaching things and then being told what to do and the like, but that doesn’t feel right to me. So yeah, mostly women, and probably women who want to approach things differently, who are ready to try something else, or just a little bit disenchanted with the whole, the usual. Just do this and that. Yeah.

Hayley Maxwell  04:33

Yeah. So what are the some of those things that you’re talking about there? And I guess some of those things were relevant to you when you were in corporate because you talked about the fact that you wanted to, you know, it just kind of didn’t sit right with you. What were the some of those things that you felt that made you want to get out of corporate and that maybe your clients come to you with as well?

Kate Wright  04:56

Yeah. Oh my gosh, there’s so many basically, it’s a it sounds really rebellious, but it’s just like working for someone else. We had this in one of my roles, no one will be able to tell which one. But the CEO who was saying things that just didn’t, it didn’t have any idea what his actual people are living, the reality. And he would send out these emails about did you know that if you save this much of your salary that you can buy a house in two years? I’m like, no, no, that’s not reality, not the people like it. This is a multinational corporation, there are people at all different salary levels, and even on our highest salary. That’s not reality. That’s not reality. And I was just like, so disgusted that they had no anyway, working for the man and the commute. So the daily reality was dragging my two kids out of bed, they didn’t want to get up, I didn’t want to get up I hate mornings. And then getting them in the car trying to make sure they both at least had shoes and socks, or like some semblance of a uniform. And then they would sleep for an hour and a half, or we commuted and then I have to get one to one school, one to the other school and then get to my corporate office. And you know, I was five or 10, 15 minutes late. And I was like, Well, of course I fucking him, have you? Do you know what I’ve just been through like, and the one kid doesn’t want to go to school. So he’s dealing with things like all this stuff. And I was like, This is crazy. There’s no reason this is like eight years before the pandemic, I was like, looking around for someone to acknowledge me and go, we don’t all need to travel on the motorway at the same time. This is insanity. What are we doing? And so it’s unfortunate the way it’s come about, but people have finally realized you can do it. Like I pride myself on saying, I’ve done a six, six figure deal in my jandals. You don’t need your business suit and tie, you don’t need the office, you don’t need any of that stuff. You just need to bring, you know, you do need to bring something solid to the table, you’ve got to help people and bring value. Yeah, the stuff that feels meaningless is what I wanted to get rid of the stuff that doesn’t make any sense.

Hayley Maxwell  06:56

Yeah, I think that’s that’s true, isn’t it? And I know certainly from my perspective, like one of the reasons that I and it’s, it’s a really common reason, one of the reasons that I left, I was working sort of in PR agency roles then, and had my first daughter and decided that actually, I didn’t, agency life wasn’t for me, and I just didn’t want to go back to that agency life, you know, that whole kind of 8:30, till 5:30. But really, it was kind of longer than 5:30. Because those looks as you’re kind of going out of the office and all of that sort of expectation that you get within the workplace. And I was just like, I don’t I you know, I don’t want to do that anymore. I want to start my own thing. I already had 10 years kind of experience. Yeah. And so, you know, that’s, that’s what the impetus was for me. But I think, like, what I realized was, I’ve never really wanted to conform in terms of having that that nine to five job, even though I was in corporate, for kind get 10 odd years or whatever, I always hated that sense of you’ve got to be at your desk by this time. And you can leave at this time. And you know, you’re basically beholden to the organization that you work for. And I just always used to question, why does it have to be this way? And obviously, this technology has advanced a lot since you know, the days of the fax machine. And that sort of thing. So we’re able to do things more now. But I think there is that societal pressure isn’t there as well on people to be and do things a certain way?

Kate Wright  08:40

Yes. And I think I ruined myself by studying sociology, when I did go to university later in life, I studied psychology and sociology, and then I could never I can never unsee that stuff, I can see that it’s like, you know, work was designed to create the robot workers, they learned to sit down from nine to three and later, we’ll extend it from nine to five. They don’t have to ask questions are asked to go to the bathroom. And they have to, you know, conform to all the rules. And we say what happens? And they just say yes or no. So how high should they jump? So another thing that people maybe know about me or don’t is that I pulled our kids out of school? Well, the first one got all the way through. I don’t know how but he did. And then the second one, we pulled them out because I was like, This is ridiculous. It doesn’t work for him. Why? And but society expects me to send my children to school from the age of five until the age of at least 15 16 and then I was like, I don’t care. This is making us sick. So I kind of I can’t I didn’t do it to be rebellious but I can’t not do it because it’s I’m just watching. Watching it damage people damage us and just working for a clock watcher who is doing meaningless work that just doesn’t impact people’s lives that I can see. It just felt as well hollow and rotten and yucky. And I was like, No, I don’t care if this is what’s expected out. I’m not doing this anymore.

Hayley Maxwell  10:06

Yeah. Oh, good on you. And obviously that meant that by having your own business, you were able to do that that homeschooling side of things.

Kate Wright  10:15

No, at the time we couldn’t do it. That’s why we hadn’t done before, because we both had to work to make ends meet. And because I had originally wanted to homeschool the first kid, and we just can’t make that work. And then I think when we pulled the younger one out, I said to my husband, because he might have been between contracts or something. And I said, you’re not getting another contract. I’m staying at my job, but you’re gonna homeschool the kid and he’s, I’m pulling him out today. And he was like, okay, cool. Um, and yeah, so there was a lot of sacrifice. It’s not been easy. I’m not I don’t just willy nilly go, Well, I got to do whatever I want. And it’s all fantastic. It’s really hard. And it’s, there’s always that doubt following you around going, no one else is doing this. Am I crazy? Is this gonna work? Like even when you start your own business, you’re like, Well, I’m letting go of that consistent paycheck. And it’s terrifying. But oh my god, is it worth it? Oh, my gosh, is it worth it? I don’t have to do that commute. I don’t have to wake up to an alarm clock. And then for me, that’s wellbeing. That’s well being Yeah. Super important.

Hayley Maxwell  11:17

Yeah, being able to just kind of take that control back, isn’t it and be the kind of rule maker in your your own own life? Really?

Kate Wright  11:26

Yeah, just having the agency and yeah, what I was alluding to before about like, work was set up for men, men worked from nine to five, and then they came home and they got the pipe and slippers and their dinner was cooked. And that’s how it was. That’s how it was created. The, you know, the 40 hour workweek and all of that stuff. And the eight hour day, it was for productivity. And there was always someone else in the background. You know, there was always a wife. And as I always used to say, when I was the breadwinner, I was like I need a wife, I can’t do all that. And  then so women entered the workforce, but nothing changed. We just had to also do everything we were doing before, get the pipe and slippers, although fuck that. And, you know, look after the children be the primary caregiver, remember everyone’s birthdays, do all the things and do this full time job that was so exhausting for them in that when they came home, they needed a gin and dinner cooked for them. Like what is that? So? Yeah, I just get quite up in arms about the way that there was no acknowledgement of we need to change this. But now there isn’t. So that’s really positive and fantastic. Yeah.

Hayley Maxwell  12:31

I think definitely like the last it feels like the last couple of years, there’s been this slight shift in terms of this awareness of, you know, women in the workplace and at home and the roles that we play, and actually how much of a demand it puts on, on women’s lives, their mental health, their physical health, all of those aspects.

Kate Wright  12:56

Yes, and there’s a lot of, there’s some research also around how the the impact of the pandemic has, has been, has had more of a negative impact on women than it has on men, because in many cases, not all, but in many cases men have carried on going to work or just done the work from home. But the women have been the ones going well, now I have to homeschool I didn’t sign up for this. And now I have children, three children with anxiety. And I have, you know, or maybe we’re going back to school, but now I’ve got school refusal and run their business. Yeah, it’s been, it’s massive. And I just want to acknowledge that and acknowledge them. Because it’s, it’s not been it’s not been easy for anyone. But that’s huge. And so yeah, I hope that in my work, that I can support them to be able to somehow manage all of that. So sometimes it’s about reframing things or changing expectations, or, you know, what’s the easiest way to get from A to B, your most efficient way?

Hayley Maxwell  13:55

And what kind of advice do you give to people who are really trying to juggle all of those aspects in their life? Like, what are the steps that you sort of talk them through in terms of how they can create some of the boundaries and that sort of thing?

Kate Wright  14:11

Yeah, 100%, it’s around that. And that’s how I think that we do business differently than men may approach it. Because I want to I don’t, I can’t, I don’t want you just to tell me, Well, I sell these things. And this is my offer, these are my offers. And this is, you know, how can I get more customers? It’s like, well, what’s going on for you? How much time do you actually really truly have? What are the other demands on you? What’s your context, because the decisions that we would make to grow your business will be different. If you’ve got to get next week’s rent, then if you you know, you’ve got two years to build this and you’re looking at the long term picture or if you’ve got a fire to put out this week, it’s a massively different, you know, proposition so and where are you at in your journey and all that stuff. So it comes into it, you can I just don’t think you can do one without the other. So it’s a bit of everything. And because that’s really being realistic Isn’t it like, if you only have two hours a day, let’s make them count.

Hayley Maxwell  15:04

Another thing that you talk about is saying FU to fear and you know, just really grabbing kind of life by two hands, you know? And that might be your personal life or in your business life. And what do you think it is about kind of like the sense of fear in business that sort of holds a lot of women back?

Kate Wright  15:24

It is terrifying. There’s no doubt about it. It’s terrifying. I think one of the common themes with when I’m working with clients is that we’ll get to this Crux point where we’re going to launch something or put out even if it’s just putting out a post or sending out an email or making an offer, because that’s terrifying. It’s really easy to it’s not easy, but you know, like, you can put out social media till the cows come home, but have you made anyone an offer? And then you’re putting yourself out there and being vulnerable to rejection? Or they might say, Oh, how do you charge that much? Or they might say, Who are you to be doing this? All the things that we tell ourselves might happen? So yes, it is terrifying. And it’s about acknowledging that yes, it’s terrifying, but it’s much less terrifying on the other side. So quite often, people cry at that point, that’s when they cry, because it’s when it’s the rubber meets the road. Do you really want to put this out there? And so I often we just joking, I’ll say, you know, if it all goes tits up, and it’s the worst thing you’ve ever done, and it’s a massive disaster, then you know, I’ll be there. I will drink vodka together, and we’ll drown our sorrows. It’ll be fine. Don’t worry about it. And then a bit of reality, like the only people looking at me, you maybe your mom and your best friend, like no, this isn’t that entire internet yet. And even if you’ve got a decent sized audiences, still nobody, you don’t look around and think, Oh, she hasn’t watched it by older her costs and selling it you don’t know. And you don’t care, because you’re busy thinking about yourself. So it’s like a bit of a reframe. How big is this really, it’s just your lizard brain going, this is terrifying, you could die. And I’m like, you probably won’t die. And then just going through that fear part. And then quite often beforehand, people will say, how scary is this on a scale of one to 10? And then like, 11? It’s terrifying. I don’t I’m so scared. And then afterwards, okay, how scary was that now on a scale of one to 10. And I thought it was four it was all uss about and they very quickly move on to the next thing and can’t even remember why. So it’s like jumping out of the plane, I guess is that, like, everything you want us on the other side of fear. So you’ve got to have gotta have one of the like, I don’t know what I’m trying to say something other than big balls, if you’ve got to hear nerves of steel. And you’ve got to have some tools to be resilient. Because one of the things that I sort of rally against is the, the idea that you can start your business today. And tomorrow, you’ll have, you know, 10 million followers, and blah, blah, blah. But what the lie that everyone’s being fed is by these people who massive. And we all follow online as that they’ve been doing it for 10 years. And they were once we are, but they are not now and they’re playing a completely different game. So some of their advice might be great. And some of it’s actually not relevant to you. Because they’ve got a big audience. And then for them, it’s a numbers game one or 2% people convert, that’s the game they’re playing. You can’t play that game, when you’ve only got a small, very small audience. That’s a completely different approach that you need to take. And, and a lot of times my work is helping them unlearn the stuff they’ve been feared, because we’re diligent little learners, and we just soak it all up. Okay, cool. I’ll do that, oh, God, this is what I need to do. And in the same way that I like, when my pulled my kid out of school, he went through this whole process of De schooling, and then like unlearning what you have to do? So as a very real example, he decided I couldn’t get near him with any school thing. So it was like, Fine, I’ll leave you to your own device services. And then I said we weren’t unschooling, so that’s fine. We’re unschooling, but actually, we were just leaving him because he couldn’t, he didn’t want to know. And then he decided to math one day. And he said, ah, ah, it doesn’t actually matter if I roll the margin and get it crooked, because there’s no teacher here to turn me off. And then he went, Oh, do you know what I can use a green pen for the margin instead of a red one? I said, Yes, you can. You could, you could do that. And then he went, actually, you know what, and he threw the pain and the road wherever a shoulder and said, I don’t even need to do a margin. And eventually, the book went the same way. And he just went off and made something out of leather that included lots of calculations. So the point of that story is to illustrate sometimes you just need to let go of the rules throw away the rule book throw away the bloody roadmap and the blueprint and all the things telling you do this thing, this thing, this thing that because it’s not a linear journey, you do need to know some of that stuff. But at some point, you’ve learned enough and you can just let it go and just don’t do stuff. Just practice stuff. Yeah, absolutely. One of the ways that I got over the terror when I really first started in my business unit, because you’re gonna make that transition from working for someone else and you’re like, you know, you’re a trusted leader in this space, but you’ve never said Hey, am I I would like to show up as a neat, I can help people I am, I can do this for you. And it was terrifying if I thought that my family were watching. And I remember one time, I sort of was just poking my head out and going in some Facebook represent was like a mother’s one. And it must have been an open Facebook group where everyone can see what you said. I didn’t realize and I had said some helpful comment to someone. And then my dad showed up and went, yeah, nice one, Katie. I was like, I can’t have you in here. I can’t do this. If you’re watching how am I? What am I gonna do? Because he can’t watch me build my business. What if I fail? Like no, yeah. And then how I got over that was actually this isn’t he can watch. It’s fine. Because it’s not my This isn’t my whole business. That’s not my, here’s the thing I’m trying to do. It’s just one little experiment on the side. So thinking of it like that. It’s just mental reframes that can help you get over the fear. It’s just one experiment, this is not going to be the be all and end all of everything, you’re probably going to try 20 other things. And I know it sounds like a bit of a trope. But you learn so much more from your failures than you do from anything that worked.

Hayley Maxwell  21:06

Yeah, I completely agree with that. I think that’s something that I always come back to myself, or like I talked to, you know, my clients about things like that as well, in terms of you do learn so much more from failures, although I always kind of reframe the word failure, because I’m actually it’s actually just a learning opportunity. If you’re thinking about things as an experiment and a learning opportunity, then there actually isn’t any failure in it, because you love those take something away from from it.

Kate Wright  21:38

absolutely do Yeah, nothing is a waste of time. And nothing was a failure. I agree with you. Yeah, I just I think we should change that word.

Hayley Maxwell  21:45

Just like I know, like, for myself in business, I went through a phase of not wanting to kind of put anything out there, because I was like, it’s got to be perfect before I get it out there. But actually, you have to get it out in order to start that iteration. process. Yeah, it’s that process of refining and making something better. And the first time you put anything out, it’s not always going to be, you know, worldwide sensation. Gonna be a hit.

Kate Wright  22:13

Yeah, I think that’s the thing that a lot of people have to come to grips with is that, because they sort of sold this sort of, that’s, I think it’s a little bit unethical that people are sold this idea that it’s going to happen so fast. For some it might, it might happen really quickly for you, you might just, you know, take off. But it depends. I think that the expectations are so wrong, like it takes two to three years to build a strong business, in my mind. And that’s not to say that you can’t see some quick wins in the first month or three months or in the first year. But your goals need to be realistic. And nobody that you’re following has done that overnight. They might say they haven’t they’re like by my template. But what I’ve been noticing lately is everyone’s reading from the same template. And sometimes that’s because it worked. But I watch a lot of YouTube in oh my gosh, they’re all doing the same stinking script, they’re using the site, and it just bothers me. I’m like, why aren’t you original. And I think that’s the authenticity that’s lost when everyone’s following the template is that they’re just doing what they’ve been told to do. And that’s, that’s, that’s not where innovation happens. That’s not where exciting is that’s just not playful. It’s the antithesis of everything, I think. So I thought of a practical thing people can do. One of them is to think of things like an experiment, and the other one. So I see that I’ve done sociology and psychology. And this is not a woowoo thing to do. This is actually based in, in creating new neural pathways in your brain. So sometimes one thing I’ve challenged myself to do and other people is if you want to step out and break out and do new different things, and be braver and get your step into being fierce and having your face impact, which I love is to start with a little thing. So do everything is called opposite day. So brush your teeth with the other hand, your whole brain is going to have to recalibrate everything because it’s never done that before. Brush your teeth with the other hand and then just do everything opposite if you normally go to one takeout place on Friday go to a completely new different one brains gonna have to go Whoa, it’s like being on holiday because you’re like, we don’t know where anything is like we’ve never done this before. And it just breaks you out of the routine habit automated system that you get in because you know, you know, this is changed, who does what in the household? Just change tiny little things and then your brain will get into this habit of going well, what’s next? Oh my gosh, this is you know, like, instead of just being on autopilot, it’s kind of exciting people like it. You just if you normally turn lift out the gate, go right down the blocks, he will ask us around the ends. That’s a practical, funny little thing that you can do that will just switch your brain on to a different sort of mode.

Hayley Maxwell  24:58

Yeah, I love that. I think that’s the really good advice. I think it’s just being willing to try and give things a go and just and see what happens and see where it where it takes you. And I definitely think there is, you know, there is a lot of fear of the unknown or fear of rejection when you’re when you’re putting yourself kind of out there, for example, in the online space, and you’re trying to grow your your business. And that’s completely understandable. But I like what you’re saying about just taking those little baby steps. I think that if you’re just taking a little baby step each day, and you’re pushing yourself just that little bit further each time, and the more you do something that you feel uncomfortable with, the easier that it actually becomes over time. And then soon, you’ll look back, and you’ll be like, Oh, my gosh, I felt I used to feel like that, yes, like this, about doing this. But now I actually feel like, I really enjoy it.

Kate Wright  25:54

Yeah, we talk about getting out of your comfort zone a lot. But what does it really mean? Like your comfort zone is the things you do by habit, just don’t autopilot you don’t even know you’re doing them. So if you really want to get out of your comfort zone, start with the real practical things you do every day change what you have for breakfast, just have a different cup of tea with your coffee. And if you do that a million times a day, what you’re doing is training your brain to go, I tried a new thing I’ve never tried before, and I didn’t die. And actually it was kind of exciting. This is a really fun game to play. And then it gets bigger and bigger. And you can take bigger risks until suddenly you’re quitting your job and, you know, taking the family on an overseas trip or whatever you want to do.

Hayley Maxwell  26:30

That’s it.

Kate Wright  26:31

I think the other thing that happens to people, especially with all a lot of you know, training courses and stuff, and the way that the language that is used in the online space, it’s like grow your list. It’s not a list. It’s there are people there’s people there. So as we lose that human thing, so sometimes what I’ll do for people is go you probably just some of the thing. I look at the website, this is one thing everybody that’s listening can do your I’m sure your your concur, is it go and look at the headline on your website. And if it starts with the word, I go and get in the backend of your website and change it right now. And you don’t say I love creating muffin flavors for you. No, nobody cares about you. We want to know what’s in it for us. So I look at this stuff from a user experience perspective, the way that we talk about things often is really what messes us up, and it just takes away the human aspect of it. It’s a person that they need your help, maybe they do.

Hayley Maxwell  27:20

Yeah, yeah, I completely agree with that. I think it’s like what I’ve noticed, and what I have been on a bit of a mission to change certainly, within my own businesses around the the marketing language that is is used and how like you said, it actually sort of de-personalizes the whole experience that you’re having with someone, I think the very fact that we’re sat behind a computer, it removes us one from the conversation essentially, in terms of, we feel safer being behind a computer. And so therefore, we think that we can use a particular type of language like, you know, lead magnet and email lists and subscribers and, and it just, it just takes that human element out of the language that we we use. And you know, I guess I tried to say things like email community or email members, or just try to use language that’s more caring and nurturing and human focused, as opposed to kind of feeling like making people feel like they’re being sort of shoved and squashed and proded down a tube along a funnel and spat out the other end. You know, it’s

Kate Wright  28:32

Yeah, and I think the people teaching us that language are there, they’ve transcended way beyond small business and small to medium enterprise. They’re there in some other realm where they’ve got millions of followers, and they’re this big guy, they are building their lists, they are making a go from, you know, 200,000 to 10 100,000. Is that a number? They, that is the game and that’s the language but it’s not. It’s not right for everyone. It’s not right for every stage of business. So yeah, unlearn stuff, and don’t think that you have to do it that way.

Hayley Maxwell  29:05

So one of the things that you advocate for is kind of doing business in a way that work for you. Yeah, so why is I guess why is that important? And what are some of the practical steps that people can take in order to start creating a business that works for them rather than than someone else?

Kate Wright  29:22

Okay, that’s a good question, because that’s going to help me through it together. So I think I talked a lot of that quitting things. I pulled my kids out of school that was not expected or normal, although a lot of people are doing it now. Things have changed. But, you know, I quit school because I myself and then I quit the country and flew overseas with my boyfriend back then. And I flew all the way to England, I cried the whole way. But I knew I had to go and try new things to do something different. And then I quit a relationship that was toxic, and then I you know, quit. One of my favorite things to do is resign. It’s such a powerful moment in your life where you’re like, I don’t no, you say No enough, I don’t accept this. I don’t like your roles. I’m not playing this game anymore. So I, I think you can bring that that feeling or that vibe into lots of things you can say, Okay, sure. So I need to, I need to have a niche, I need to do this, and I need to grow my list and I need to have a lead. And I need you to actually know, I chose to do this one thing, because that thing, I feel like fits with my values and my morals and the way I want to run my business. And it’s not cutting off my nose to spite my face. Like, I think I can do this this way. So it’s kind of about rejecting things. It’s about saying, No, I don’t like that. And so if people feel yucky about doing sales a certain way, then don’t do it. Don’t do that. Let’s find a way that works for you. Do you prefer to get on the phone with people? And does this fit with your entire business model? Because we do also want to, you know, we want to use real data and statistics and you know, just want to go off on some tangent and create a crazy butterfly garden somewhere that nobody cares about. But there’s a lot of things you can say no to. And in doing that, that might open up ideas about what you want to say yes to. So it’s, it’s a bit and it’s about knowing yourself, you can’t do that if you don’t know. And it’s a journey. So that’s the part we need to be realistic. I’ve never done this before. I don’t know what I like, I don’t know if I’m gonna like audio or video, but I feel like maybe I could do video, or am I just feeling pressured? Because I did a course. And they told me you must do video because it’s the only way it got to do reels. Everybody must do reels or they’re going to might as well just, you know, fall on a lump in the corner because no one’s going to look at you. And like I mean you’re talking to so I haven’t got a website, I’ve been rebuilding my website for the longest. I haven’t hit one up all year. I haven’t. And probably the year before, I haven’t posted anything on social media. I don’t even know for how long maybe six months, a year. I don’t I just don’t I don’t have a Facebook group. It don’t have an email list. I hate to tell you. But I am busier than I’ve ever been. And people know me and they know what I stand for. And so it doesn’t have to be don’t have to knock yourself out pumping out content, because who’s it going to? Maybe, maybe you could find one person who you can see that you could help. If you do social media, and you can see someone struggling or you’ve heard them say I’m really struggling with this, then maybe you could say, well, this is how I help people do that. Like you don’t have to be blasting out to the whole wide internet. We’re doing. I’m doing dancing and singing and stuff. I don’t want to do it. And if you can do it and you want to that’s fine. It’s fun. I love making tick tock And holy crap. It took me all day. I loved making it. And I was like I could do this for ever. I would love to do this all the time. But yeah, it would take me a day to make one stinking tick goal. It’s not even. And so I help people just realize you don’t have to do all the things. And let’s figure out what works for your brain. Yeah, some people learn differently. Some people express themselves differently. It’s about giving them permission. Like if you want to do your whole course just by email, because you’re a reader, writer type person, then do that you can still make that work. And yeah, just you don’t have to fit into this sort of stereotype of who people are telling you. And it’s very difficult to unlearn. I’m still I still struggle, like I still fall into those things where I say, oh, no, but I have to be prfessional. And I’m like, I kind of let go of it now. But it is very difficult to unlearn. It’s like anything that’s been steeped into us. And we were good learners, we’re very conscientious. We’re like, I need to learn, I need to know what I’m doing. I want to soak in all this information. And that’s a good thing to do. But there comes a point where you have to go, Okay, I’ve soaked in enough. Now I’m just gonna let that all go trust that it’s in me somewhere and just do things my own way. And what’s the worst that can go wrong?

Hayley Maxwell  33:48

yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I think you’re right, that we’ve been kind of conditioned over time, haven’t we to act and be a particular way in in business. And so whether that’s come from being in a corporate background, and having to conform to a particular organizational sort of, you know, expectation, or whether that’s maybe you’ve been in kind of academia, and obviously, there’s still the whole academic institution that kind of very much formalizes you. Yeah. And I think it’s then switching when you go into your own business, we carry a lot of that level with us. Yeah. And I think particularly around that thought of what it means to be professional, essentially, you know, what it means to act professionally or to look professional, all of those sorts of things as well. So you’re right. It’s unlearning all of that

Kate Wright  34:44

they have to unlearn. Yeah, because when you think about it, who did that serve? Who did it serve? To say that you can only have a certain type of hair or that earrings or tattoos? Remember when I don’t remember who it was? Maybe my brother got an ear piercing and my dad or you’ll never get a job with that. Like, no, that’s just so long gone. And sometimes professionalism can be disguised toxicity, it’s actually saying you’re not, you don’t count because you’re different or Yeah, so that’s out the window for you can forget, don’t you don’t have to sound professional, you just need to, like I say, need to be strong in what you know and what you can help people do and the value that you provide. And then, you know, the rest of it. That’s who did that serve anyway, who taught us that? Who taught us to always put a full stop at the end of the sentence? Who taught us that you have to put a capital letter? It’s not professional? If you’ve not done that, like? Dude? None of that minutes? Like,

Hayley Maxwell  35:38

that’s Yeah, exactly. I think that’s, that’s right. And I think it’s just being brave enough to try things different ways, or being brave enough to give things a go that are different to the current norms, or to the flow or go against what other people are doing. Because maybe it doesn’t, doesn’t feel right to you. And like we’re talking about earlier, it doesn’t always have to be, you know, you don’t have to always do big leaps and jumps each time, it can just be doing like small things every step of the way to kind of get closer to creating that business. That is actually more you.

Kate Wright  36:12

Yes. And the only way I think that one of the ways that you can make that doable for yourself is to get someone on site, get someone who’s going to be that person who’s going to tell you the truth, and challenge you and push you a little bit, but also go It’s okay, like, it’s gonna be fine. I’ll help you like, this is what we’ll do in that scenario. This is what we will do. In that scenario. This is how we’re going to cope with rejection. We have a plan, like, so even if this happens, we have a plan. This is what we do. And this is how we move forward from there. So it’s not like this unknown abyss, we’re oh my gosh, what if it goes wrong? Like what is in the end? Wasn’t it but best of terror? Like it’s fine, maybe that no one signs up for your thing? Or you get a bad comment on your post? Because you said something a little bit opinionated. Then this is how we’re going to deal with it. Step one, step two, step three, then we move on. And then you know, it’s nice to have a plan and no Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. So then you’re like, oh, yeah, actually won’t die. It won’t be terrible. I will get canceled. Yeah. And so having that person to go? No, you’re not crazy. Yeah, that does looks fine to me. Yeah. And just to check, thanks. Sometimes people just want to check things and go, is this crazy? Like, is this too unprofessional? Or is enough? Be like, no, that looks fine to me, or yeah, this part, he might want to take out a bit a bit too. I don’t know, vulnerable or raw or something. And just having that confidence, where you’re like, yes, someone other than me has looked at this with an objective kind of set of eyes. And then yeah, okay, I’m good to go. Just gives, you know,

Hayley Maxwell  37:43

being able to bounce those ideas off someone that you really trust, and then towards someone that you really trust, I think really, really helps. Yeah. And now before we wrap up, so I always ask three questions of my guests. And so I’m going to fire these away at you. And the first one of these questions is, what does being fierce in business mean to you?

Kate Wright  38:05

I’m gonna flip it a little bit. I think being fierce doesn’t have to always look fierce. It doesn’t. I mean, yeah, it could look quite quiet and subtle. And it could be me fiercely defending my boundaries. Or it could be me making sure that every time I send out my terms and conditions, because that’s me fiercely, that, to me has been professional, that’s like, this is my terms. And, you know, this is our contract. Or it could be fiercely defending your space and locking the door to the children and saying, No, this is my day, this is my time. I’m not available. And in my house that comes out really, it’s okay, my kids are older. Now. They both were once the UK and the other ones 18. So it’s fine. Nobody come from it. But like, I’ll say to my kids, if they go, oh, where’s the XYZ? Or what’s for dinner? Or what? Is there any food? I’ll be like, well, what would you do? You’d figure it out. And I have confidence and faith in you that you can go and figure that out. And that is probably a bit fierce. And it’s like, putting it back on people. I’m not here to run around and fix everything for you. Maybe it looks like that for lots of people. And you could find a more appropriate way to deal with littler kids. You could say, well, how would you solve that?

Hayley Maxwell  39:16

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I think it’s you’re right in saying like, being fierce doesn’t always mean that you are the loudest most extrovert person in a room, for example, there are lots of more subtle, quiet ways to be fierce within your own within your own business and in a way that suits you.

Kate Wright  39:39

Yes. I love the concept of fierce impact because sometimes the quietest people are the fiercest.

Hayley Maxwell  39:46

Absolutely. And so what kind of impact are you trying to make through your business?

Kate Wright  39:52

Now started off by saying I wanted to help. Like, I think it was 1000 I was too scared to put a big number. I actually want to help a million women quit their job. Oh, if they hate the job. And then I was scared to say that because some of my start counting. So I said 1000 Women quit the job. But the impact that I think I want to hear is by setting the example and doing things differently, like, I’ve, people are kind of shocked when they go, Wow, did you pull your kids out of school? And then can they go to university? What happened to them? They didn’t. He hasn’t been to school since he was in year eight to however old you are the beginning of year eight. And yes, you can still get a university degree, yes, you can still read and write your you know, you can still he gets A’s at University. He’s quit that now. But it’s you can do things differently and still be okay. You don’t have to follow the rules. And so I want to the impact, I want to leave as an example for others that you can, you can say, No, you can pull the middle finger to stuff. And I know that’s kind of trendy now. But I think if people need a helping hand to just get that courage to go, I can do this or do it in a safe way. You don’t have to up and quit stuff. You can make a plan. And you can go okay, well, here are the first steps to get me to that stage. And then I can move to the next stage. So I just want to be an example that you can you can make things happen that you want to happen. You don’t have to do it all at once. And you can do it in a way that’s safe for you.

Hayley Maxwell  41:12

Yeah, I think that’s an important point isn’t it is making sure that it’s doing it in a way that’s that safe for you. It’s that it’s not about saying no and being kind of reckless. It’s about doing things in a safe way. Yes. For whatever your situation is.

Kate Wright  41:26

I think it sounds can look reckless, and it sounds like you know, somebody described me as being the person who does the dramatic exit, which I kind of love. But um, and flouncing out the door, but it’s actually much more considered than that. It takes a long time of planning and prepping.

Hayley Maxwell  41:45

No. And so what’s one piece of advice that you’ve been given that’s had a really big impact on how you do business?

Kate Wright  41:53

That’s probably from Tim Ferriss. He didn’t give it to me directly. But I heard him say it and I like it. And he said, What if it was easy? What would this look like? If it was easy? If you just let go of all that other? I don’t know if he said this part. But he said, what if it were easy? And that’s what that’s what I say to people often. And then I give it I’ve got to do this. And then and then there’s this other thing. And it’s all very complicated. It’s all too much. And I don’t know where to start. I’m like, Okay, wait, what would that look like? If it was easy? It would be just you doing this thing? And then that would happen? Okay, well, how can we make that happen? How can we peel away all the other stuff that doesn’t need to be happening right now, park it somewhere safe, so you don’t feel that you’ve still got to be overwhelmed by it, or that you’re just letting it fall away? Park it. And then, like, if it was easy, what’s the most efficient way to get from A to B without all the mess? And the other one is, whatever you want to say and then enter. That’s okay. I don’t know where that came from. I didn’t make it up. But I love it. Like, if you add that to the end of anything, you think, Oh, should I haven’t done this? And I haven’t done that. And oh, my gosh, I haven’t even on my list for a week. And that’s okay. Because you were dealing with something or just and that’s okay. That’s okay. The world’s not gonna end. So there you go. There’s two things. What if it was easy? And it’s okay.

Hayley Maxwell  43:04

I love those. Yeah, I think those are fantastic. Because I think you’re totally right. I think just adding that and that’s okay. Because we do put so much pressure on ourselves to have certain things done or to have a to do list and not get through every single item that’s on it each day. And that’s okay. You know, we’re all just trying our best.

Kate Wright  43:24

That’s okay, that’ll l still work. Yeah.

Hayley Maxwell  43:29

I love those. Well, thank you so, so much for your time. And it was really wonderful catching up with you and having a chat with you about this. And I know you’ve said that you haven’t got a website. But if people want to stalk you, where is the best place to find you?

Kate Wright  43:43

Well, that’s the first challenge. To hunt me down. You can find me on LinkedIn, Kate Wight MBA  because it’s 1,000 Kate Wrights Or you could find me on Facebook and just private message me and nothing. I’m just Kate Wright. So either of those places, and then just DM me, I made it difficult.

Hayley Maxwell  44:03

But you’re doing it your own way.

yeah, that’s how I roll.

Hayley Maxwell  44:07

I love it. Awesome. Well, thank you so much again, Kate, and it was fab to speak to you. Well, I really hope that you enjoyed that conversation as much as I did. And I believe it’s really important for us to have conversations like this, to remind us that we don’t always have to do things in a prescribed way. As business owners, we have got the ability to choose how to do things to figure out new ways of working that are right for us, for our values, our family and our unique circumstances. Now, I’d love to know what your biggest takeaway was, feel free to DM me on Instagram at Hayley Maxwell writes. And of course, if you’d like to rate and review the show, I would massively appreciate it because it helps others to decide whether or not to listen in. Likewise, if you’ve got any feedback or topics you’d like me to cover, get in touch with me via Instagram, too. If you need help to grow your personal brand, become wildly relevant to your dream clients and carve out a memorable and distinctive position in your industry. So you can finally get momentum and get known for your talent and expertise, and the incredible transformation you create for your clients, then my one to one positioning and message coaching might be exactly what you need. If you’re interested. I invite you to come and find out some more details on my website at www.hayleymaxwell.com. And now, until next time, go forth and be fierce.

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