Brand positioning and messaging coach, ferocious ice cream eater and leopard print lover.
I'm here to help talented women with personal brands to rise up and make fierce waves in the minds of their ideal clients by helping them to carve out their powerful position and clarify the big message they want to become known for.
So they can become:
- The ONLY choice for their idea clients.
If you’ve ever wondered how the heck to stand out from the crowd and get noticed in a noisy digital world, then this episode is for you!
I’m joined by Rachel Klaver, a marketing strategist who helps small business owners to become more confident with their marketing, especially when it comes to showing up more and building a personal brand.
It’s a goodie!
If you enjoy this episode I’d love you to hit follow or subscribe in your favourite podcast player so you never miss an episode!CONNECT WITH ME
On Instagram @hayleymaxwellwrites
PEOPLE AND RESOURCES MENTIONED
Rachel’s business: Identify Marketing
Rachel’s podcast:Map It Marketing Podcast
Map It Marketing Podcast Episode: How I lost and found my voice in 2021
Rachel’s free Facebook group: Map It Marketing Facebook Group
Hayley Maxwell 00:06
well, hello, hello, and welcome to episode 12 of the fierce impact podcast. And today I’m super excited because I have a very special guest for you, Rachel Klaver, who I will introduce in just a moment, and we’re going to be talking about one of my favorite topics and that is all about owning you’re weird and standing out from the crowd. So let me just first of all, introduce Rachel to you. If you want to become more confident with your marketing, especially on showing up more and building a personal brand for your business. Then Rachel clovers, your person once shamed from being called a shameless self promoter in a national gossip column. Rachel now owns it and thrives on helping small business owners to build their own personal brand. To strengthen their business. Rachel co owns identify marketing with her husband rod, and identify work with clients on marketing strategies and action plans, training small business owners in how to use the digital tools they need to grow. Rachel’s goal is to help clients build a web of content that helps them to build trust in the business and the person behind it. And her book on content marketing via spider builder web comes out in May 2022. And Rachel is the host of the podcast Mapit marketing, which if you haven’t listened to it before, is an awesome zero fluff podcast that I love. So make sure you put it on your podcast list. And I’ve been following Rachel for a while now. And one of the things I most enjoy about the way that Rachel shows up online and the message that she shares is that she really advocates for stepping into your own brand of weird and owning your voice as a business owner and showing up as yourself. And it’s a message that I wholeheartedly agree with because there’s so much noise online and so much competition, and attention spans are shorter. So we really need to consider as part of our brand and marketing strategy, how we’re going to cut through the noise and stand out in a sea of sameness. And my belief is we can’t just leave it to chance we’ve got to be willing to tap into our personality, our quirks, our unique perspectives, and to turn the heat up on these in a way that helps us to become more memorable. So without further ado, let’s jump into it. I know it’s going to be a cracking conversation. So welcome, Rachel.
Rachel Klaver 03:11
Thank you so much. Thank you very much for having me on your show.
Hayley Maxwell 03:14
And I love that you’re wearing a cobweb shirt.
Rachel Klaver 03:21
I did I got I actually put this on specially for you. Because I was like, You know what, I actually got this especially for that that’s way too big. But I was like, I’m gonna use this. I was gonna have it as my book. And I was like, Whoa, it’s really baggy. But it’s really great for podcast because you can’t see how big it is underneath. So it’s all good. But yeah, I think it’s really important one of those things with brands is for me is that having clothes that align with your messaging or clothes that do that really help you step into it and so one of those things that I do is I do carefully consider the clothes that I wear. And the clothes I wear and videos or things like that are often very different to the clothes I read in real life. Because I do write it out because I do consciously step into that look and feel.
Hayley Maxwell 04:09
Yeah definitely I think I love that because I kind of do the same with my clothes so a lot of my wardrobe is leopard print. So pretty much whenever I show up and I’m you know yeah on video or having client calls I’m always like okay if I hadn’t got leopard print on today I need to go and put it on because it’s kind of my brand.
Rachel Klaver 04:28
It does and I think for me the reason I do because people go up is that not you know we talked about being real and brands but one of the things that I think with that is it helps me and those days where I don’t feel I’m having you know I’m having a tired brain day to day so on those days it’s really important to step into your brand clothes to help you remember who you are and put that on and then when you finish you can take that off and go back to quiet mouse day if you want to. But it really helps and I have two different brands. So I actually have like two different brands, two colors and in my studio here, I have my whole work wardrobe here, the clothes and it makes it easy to change clothes. And I know that the closer we’re going to go with the colors of my brand as well as the whole thing, you know, it just makes it easier.
Hayley Maxwell 05:11
Oh, completely. Yeah, I love that. And I think we don’t often think about those sorts of things when it comes to our brand and shaping that personality, we don’t often think about, oh, well actually, let’s make sure that we’re reflecting this in all aspects, including things like our wardrobe. And I, I actually wonder, actually, it’d be quite good if we could get an allowance from our, you know, through our business for clothes, maybe I should talk to my accountant about that. It’s a uniform right?
Rachel Klaver 05:37
You can costumes. So I have like a road cone costume, I was allowed to buy that I have wings like angel wings. And also I have a couple things. And the other thing I like about it is that my husband who works with me, he’s great, but he is happiest in shorts and T shirts and jandals. And so our life is very casual, it gives me an opportunity to have quite dress up clothes for work that I wouldn’t always wear during the weekends. And I also have a pair of Lucien lakh really bright, audacious overalls. And I know that a couple of years he wants you, to me wear anything you like. But seriously, if we ever go on a date, and you’re wearing a pair of overalls that are brightly colored, so I get to wear those at work. That’s awesome. I
Hayley Maxwell 06:18
love it. And so I really wanted to start off by talking about actually one of your podcast episodes. And I think it was it was how I lost and found my voice in 2021. And I’ll put a link to it in the show notes. Because in that you shared about how you sort of felt that you’d lost your way a little bit last year, when it came to showing up in a way that was sort of truly aligned with who you were, and then how you found yourself again, and I think that there were some really important messages in that episode, and that a lot of us will actually resonate with, particularly around, you know, the fact that we consume so much of other people’s online content, it’s really easy for us to kind of try and emulate what other people are doing because we see them being successful, even when their approach to marketing isn’t isn’t necessarily something that’s right for us or aligned with us. So could you maybe start by sharing a little bit of your experience last year, and just and talk talk us through that. A lot of it came
Rachel Klaver 07:23
from Milton just before the podcast. So I hope you’ll say that, but it’s true, we were doing that. And we were talking about how I really have fallen in love with Tik Tok this year, and I’m really enjoying the fluidity of it and how you love Instagram. And last year, like Instagram was something for me that I’ve never really I’d never seen big gains, and I had never really fallen in love with it. It’s a platform that makes me fit. I feel like a bit of a square peg in a round hole and Instagram, I feel Instagram is something we even though they say it’s relaxed, you need to still have a citizen of civic and I’m not consistent with a Sedex I like Miss missing things around and being a bit. You know this today I’m doing this understanding something else. And Instagram doesn’t like that Instagram likes having quite a clear aesthetic so that people get to know who you are. And those are the things. And so what I did as I this year, so last year 2021, I am going to submit to the algorithm algorithm, I am going to learn how to do it, I need to do this, my clients, I can’t keep on saying here, hey, this is how you’re doing it if I haven’t done it myself and walk through it. And so I did that. And I was like if I do this, I’m going to have this mess of following and it’s going to be amazing. And you know, I had all these ideas. And so I started watching other big accounts, and their big marketing accounts, you know, not New Zealand accounts, you know, 100,000 150,200 50,000 people. And what happened was I started listening to what they were saying, trying to do it. But the more I did it, the more I lost me. And I started to doubt the way I did stuff. And really like this, the whole upshot of it was I realized for a few things. One, I interviewed a whole bunch of those people because I was fascinated. I had them on my podcast, I talked to them privately. Nearly all of them, we’re doing less revenue and profit than I was already so they already not doing as well. So they look really big and successful. But they weren’t making money. So some of them are going are you and I did $3 million turnover and was saying to me and the thing, I haven’t made a profit yet. So even the ones that had big amounts weren’t profitable. And I was like, Whoa, hang on. That’s not what I’m here for. I’m here as a small business owner, trying to prove that you can make money on Instagram and sell on Instagram. So that was a bit of a disconnect. But the other thing was is that when you chase that and chase trying to fit all those other things and you forget your own voice, you drop the ability to find the audience that is best for you. And that audience may never be large. I think that’s the biggest thing is chasing numbers that you know I don’t know if it’s the same with you when you talk to people, but I asked my Facebook group around the year for Instagram, what’s your one goal for Instagram, and nearly every single person said, double my followers, it’s the wrong goal. The right goal is double my engagement increase, you know, increase the conversion to sale, double the, the community feel I’ve got in my group, those are the things that count. And that’s the stuff you get when you have a brand voice. But what people want is they think I need big numbers. Now, I think that’s where we lose ourselves, because we try and emulate other people to get that.
Hayley Maxwell 10:38
Yeah, exactly. And I think it’s, I think that you can have goals to grow your audience, but it’s about growing an audience of the right people. So the right fit for you and your business and your brand, and the kind of people that you really want to work with. Because there’s no point in just putting yourself out there and trying to attract anyone and everyone, you actually want to really attract the people that enjoy your particular vibe that really connect with you and your personality and the way that you share your perspectives and that sort of thing. And I think that’s really, really often sort of get caught up in forgetting about it all.
Rachel Klaver 11:22
I think that there’s nothing wrong with wanting to have a growth in your account. And there’s obviously there are people with really big accounts that have amazing engaged followings, I’ve followed some of those people. And I love the community they’ve built. And I think it’s amazing, what I think happens is we start with, I need to grow to grow my business, instead of, I need to work on getting my brand voice really clear of who I am, I need to become more confident of showing my face, I need to show and find ways to display who I am and what I’m about, and be brave enough to show my values and be brave enough to show those things that matter. And trust that it will create a small group of people who love that and engage with it. And then when you’ve nailed that, and you’ve got that really right, then you can grow, then you can work on those, those reels for growth and those short posts for growth and all those things. But it’s getting that engaged content and a really clear message first, before you jump into that growth.
Hayley Maxwell 12:21
Absolutely. Okay. Yeah, I couldn’t agree with that more, because I think that’s it, there is a lot of work almost to do before you. I mean, I never want people to stop showing up. But I think there’s a lot of work to do behind the scenes from a brand perspective, that quite often we skip over in the process of starting our business. And we obviously are wanting to get clients in the door, we’re wanting to start making some money, we need to start making money. And then we become busy. And it’s really hard for us to then kind of go back and say actually, what are my brand foundations and start to build the brand from it is really building the brand from the bottom up bottom up. And being really clear about who you are as you know, as a business as a brand and how you want to show up and how you want people to perceive you, I think that’s a really fundamental part that we do often skip over.
Rachel Klaver 13:23
And I, I have skipped over it. Like I it’s the hardest thing as a strategist is to do marketing strategy. And I’ll get halfway through it. And I get sidetracked and I’m off doing someone else’s work. And, you know, I’m really lucky that I have a business partner that I can reflect off of the other strategist in the team I can talk to, but in the end, it’s often me doing that creation of that strategy or working it through. And I will sometimes be preaching to someone about what to do, or I’m halfway through the strategy and I’m quietly going, alright, need to fix that thing on my website. That I’m not gonna have to get it all right, like I always say that the idea of marketing is just to be a little bit less shit than your competitors, you don’t have to be the gold standard all the time, you just need to be a little bit better. And most of the shirts and I don’t mean that most of your competitors is shut, I mean that people do historically do a bad job in their marketing. So you just have to do like a little bit better than them to stand out. Unless you’re in marketing like us, or you’re in skincare or something like that. And in which case, you know, it’s gonna be tricky, but, but for a lot of people, you don’t have to do a huge amount. But I do think that it is that taking the time out and I have been doing that this year. I haven’t been on Instagram as much and blocking out time I’ve actually got today. One of the things I’ve put on here is to have my time on my on my table with no screens actually planning out I’ve got a basically a process and I’m quite happy to share a little bit of that today to give some people some practical practical ideas that really helped me tailor it in I think They also and this isn’t just Instagram, but across the board. This year, I’ve been quite brave for myself fierce, and that our team does marketing strategies for absolutely every type of business. And we, you know, the smallest person we’ve worked with this year said $11,000 turnover. And the largest company we work with is head of 50 million plus, you know that, like, it’s a huge broad thing. But what I have allowed myself to do this year, is really niche down on the fact that I love working with people on their personal brands. And so, for me, that’s helped me define my messaging, I think, is hard. A lot of people go through broad like you, you’ve got a great niche, because you’re like, This is my niche. And I’m sticking to it. And I think that’s a powerful thing to do. Because it makes it easy to create content. A lot of small business owners struggle with that, because I try to do everything.
Hayley Maxwell 15:54
It is, that’s it, I think it’s almost you know, your niche down focused on one core thing, get really good at that, work out your messaging for that. And once that’s up and running, and you’re known for that thing, then then you can sort of expand and expand an offering so, or even, you know, you you talk about one or two particular offerings that you have, behind the scenes, you might do other things, but you bring your clients to you by becoming an expert and talking about those one or two main things. And then when people are actually working with you, then you let them know that you also can help them in these other ways as well. So it just means that you’re not constantly trying to think, oh, how am I going to? How am I going to show up today? What am I going to talk about, you know, it becomes a lot less sort of piecemeal. So yeah,
Rachel Klaver 16:44
and you and I both have done a post, we’ve both done various different months, possibly even years. I’m pretty sure it was you. But the iceberg analogy, where basically it might not have been here. But but but I always say like an idea of showing like, really your offer is an iceberg, you have the tip of what you’re sharing online is not what you do. And business owners really struggle with this. I always say it’s narrowing the arrows. So you show the pointy tip, the narrow pointy tip of what you do, they can be a hole of stuff under here. But you show the thing that either is your core service, or is the service that tends to lead to other work, or your product. So even when you’ve got huge amounts of skews of products, there might be like three or four different things that are your core things that you said well over and over again, those are the things he talked about sprinkle with a bit of difference every now and again, but mainly focus on that. It just makes miss it as too hard to do a broad message. You can’t do that.
Hayley Maxwell 17:42
Yeah, exactly. And, you know, by focusing on just one or two things, that that tip of the iceberg that you’re talking about, means that you can stand out, you know, because you’re standing out for something in particular, rather than sort of standing out for a multitude of different things, which is never going to happen because people are not going to really ever grasp, you know, the variety of things that you kind of do. And I guess so in terms of, you know, having a unique voice and letting your voice sort of come through Why do you think that that is such an important part of sort of building, building a brand.
Rachel Klaver 18:18
So there’s a couple of things one, I’ll give an example. So my book would be a spider web. I’m the first book I’ve ever self published. So all my other books have been with publishers. But so I’ve got someone who’s helping me do that process. And they did a book design. And the book designer came back I briefed them pretty clearly. And then I really realized my break was completely inaccurate. But I put them in my Facebook group, which is people who have followed me because of my personal brand. And I didn’t mind a couple of them and I like absolutely not these are not okay this does not reflect to you this we’re is the quirky, weird Rachel that we love. And it was a real reminder that your personal brand will attract people who like you. And this is why it’s so so important that your brand is who you really are. Because I spent a long time in my life worried that people would not like the weird me or the different way and I had people who didn’t like it so that I would take that very much deeply to heart and they still won’t like it but you know, but what I’ve realized is it’s so liberating just to show up as yourself and who you are. I’m doing this my hair is not my age. I have no makeup on that is pretty much me that’s who I am. And I can be goofy I can be serious I can do those things, but it’s pure me and so when people choose to follow me I don’t have to try and pretend to be anything but me. I don’t have to pretend like I am not I swear like a trooper but I don’t use throwing a lot in my brand. Because I don’t I don’t like I don’t like doing that occasionally but you know quite a bit of dropping the F bomb here and there with people I know well, that’s so I you know the that, but you know, like I’m not into like dissing other people in my brand, I don’t have that, because that’s actually not who I am. And so I, I like that I just have created this thing that is who I am how I communicate, and attracts clients that love that. So they trust you more you trust them because they like you. And you can do better work. Like the whole thing works better when you’re just showing up as yourself. And, look, I always say, I don’t care what your personality is like, if you’ve got a really shitty personality, people are still going to love you. And I always use the Hitler or the Trump hope no one loves Trump here. But you know, I always used to hate Trump thing. Trump got 17 million views, our votes last in the last election. There are people who love Trump, I personally do not love Trump. But people do. You know, like you look at our leader now in New Zealand, there are people who have absolutely adore her and other people who think she’s literally the Antichrist, like there’s this complete divide between those two things. She’s just the person she is. So whoever you are, people will love you. Don’t try and pretend you’re not anything else. Because it’s exhausting trying to be someone else. Well, let me advance
Hayley Maxwell 21:12
it. No, I love that. I love it. I think you know, I think it’s really important to have these kinds of conversations and to really, you know, talk about this, because when you from, from my perspective, when you actually step into just being yourself, then actually things like your marketing become a lot easier. Because you’re not trying to put on a persona, you’re not trying to live up to a particular expectation or standard that is kind of in your in your head that you feel like you need to be upholding. So I just I know that, you know, when as I’ve sort of got over time, you know, stepped into kind of my own personality more and just let that sort of shine through that actually becomes a lot easier. And so it goes back to what you were saying, you know, like you can just show up as you and not not worry so much.
Rachel Klaver 22:08
Yeah, I do. Like I want to, I want to be really honest here, because I think I’m quite a boring person. I’m, there’s something that happens when a camera comes on me or when I’m creating where I’m just a little bit and the extra, I’m actually an introvert. And people never believe that, you know, I’ll speak at a conference and I’ll be fully all systems go. And I will say to people look, if you come and talk to me afterwards, I’m just letting you know, you’re going to be bored by me, this will have exhausted me. So I’m going to sound like I’ve been drinking alcohol all day, cuz I’m going to start slurring because I’m tired, because I’ve used all my energy and, and so what I noted down here in your toolkit, I think for me, my brand is 10% more than my relaxed self. So I do definitely add an energy, I think that’s the thing that people do get confused with. You can’t like, if I just, I’m just gonna do it now. So this is this is me talking normally. And this is how I would talk. Normally, if I was just talking to my husband, I would talk like this. This kind of time is nice, and it’s good. But it doesn’t give as much interest, interest and dynamic things. I’m moving my hands around more. So it means I’ve got that your movement. It is you. But there is a need to bring an energy and you do have to bring that in. Because whatever your brand is, if you don’t do that, especially with cameras, it does fall flares. And I think that’s the thing that people miss, you have to know who you are, you have to stand and who you are. And then you just bring it.
Hayley Maxwell 23:37
Exactly. Yeah, no, exactly. It’s it’s kind of turning that dial up to 11, isn’t it? So it’s like just taking it and turning it on the parts of you that you really want to share. It’s turning those as opposed to seeking external influences. Yeah, it’s about bringing those things out of you, and bringing that energy in that enthusiasm and putting it behind those elements of your own personality. So yeah, and I
Rachel Klaver 24:08
will just say, because you talked about the external elements. So I’m very careful, I probably do consume way too much content, because I my brain does like the distraction. But I use a tool called notion. And I use it with my coaching clients and myself. And it’s got like a little reading list. And it’s got like a content creation ideas list. And so what I do, I used to take snapshots are stuff that I forget, what I do is if I see something that I like, or I go, that’s good content, I immediately grab that and put it in notion with why I liked it, and then just move on. And so I’ve kind of coded it so mine might be around like personal brand or might be like marketing tools. And then when I go to plan content, I can pull all that stuff together and make notes and then I create my own voice. I’m not replicating what they do. So So I think it is really important like You know, you’re you’re a writer, you can write and create, I have written for years too. So I find it very easy to come up with ideas and create content. But that’s a hard thing for many, many people to do. And think you do have to research and see what other people are doing. But the key is not to researcher and get overwhelmed by it, file it away, and take time to reflect on it and then modify it in your way.
Hayley Maxwell 25:25
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And I think that’s, that’s a really good point, isn’t it? It’s about modifying, modifying inspiration that you see out there, and making it align with you and your perspectives and giving it your own unique spin really,
Rachel Klaver 25:43
yeah, I use I’ve got a model called the armed model, which is basically absorb, reflect, modify, execute, distribute. And so what I say with that is that, you know, you need to be armed, like you need to absorb all that information and get that in there. Take time to reflect before you start to create it, and then modify it. And that’s why like, what’s your brand, like you talked about leopard print, and you’ve got like a clear color palette that you use, and all those sort of things, having that clear Pat color palettes that automatically are going to make it more your style anyway. And I have, I don’t know if you if you’d call them these, Haley. But I, when I just started with clients, I always say I want your isms. I’ve left a gap here. And I want you to put your Haley isms. So when you’re talking to someone, you go, Oh my gosh, that’s something I say all the time, write it down, put it in your plan, use those isms of things that you say all the time when you’re talking to somebody, and they become your brand voice.
Hayley Maxwell 26:40
Absolutely. Yeah, that’s and that’s something I talk about a lot, you know, in terms of bringing your, your own personality and your own flavor to your copy into a message is all about digging into some of those isms that you have. So those phrases that you might might use all the time, or, you know, the way that you the way that you say something, or the way that maybe you sign off in an email, for example, might be different to someone else. And it’s all these little unique things that you might, you might do just, you know, even if you’re speaking with friends actually look at that, and think about how you can bring that into your brand. Because that helps you to sort of set yourself apart, you know, we don’t always need to be this formal kind of, you know, corporate, you know, brand, it’s about actually just bringing a bit of that fun and flavor into it as well. So it doesn’t matter if you have things that you say that are a little bit weird. I always say like, just embrace it, bring your weird.
Rachel Klaver 27:39
And the other thing that’s good with that is that people can’t copy there. That’s the thing they can’t copy. I worked with a client a couple of weeks ago, and she mentioned during the session, she said I you know, these particular people are nasty little buggers. And I wrote it down. And I I put it in a plan as an example of something that she could say, because she she used it to him a few times, that is not necessarily professional, but shows the flavor of who she is and the way she describes things. And I think that’s so important, because that’s the bit that people remember, there is nothing more exciting to me than the moment where I’m on LinkedIn. And someone says, So this morning, I was being a spider. And sometimes they say like Rachel clavis is, and sometimes they go. So this morning, I was working on building my web. And I’m always I always go come and go, I love to see you as being a spider. They’re like, Yep, I always think about you when I do that. That’s powerful. Yeah, absolutely. I can never work with me they are creature, they’ve used the idea of my analogy, and then able to do that. That’s what a brand is. And it doesn’t matter if it’s not 1000s of people
Hayley Maxwell 28:41
know, exactly. I think the other thing it does as well is, you know, using your isms, and you know, using the analogies that you share and things like that, like you say people begin to associate with that. And that helps to make you more memorable. Because I know like for me, I’ve had people who’ve been out in in shops and things like that. And they’ve sent me photos of gram of leopard print outfits, or leopard print notebooks, all sorts of things. They say, Hey, I saw them. And I thought of you. And that’s exactly what we’re wanting to do with our kids. It’s about making money. Evil. Yeah, exactly. So but I love some point, isn’t it about being unique and memorable in our own kind of little way and enjoying that as well. And I think that it’s about and I know that this is something you’ve talked about before is about breaking that pattern of sameness, essentially.
Rachel Klaver 29:46
Yeah, be a pattern breaker. And I want to talk a little bit about bit about why I choose often to wear no makeup in my videos and stuff too. Because this is an interesting thing with woman in particular, that we have this idea that we’ve got to present this perfect face to people all the time. And if you are someone who habitually wears makeup and does your hair every day, then all power to you 100% do that. But I don’t. And for a long time, when I was doing video, I would be like, Okay, I have to wait for a good hair day. I’m a swimmer, I have it’s been a while recently, but, you know, often hit my hair up, because I’ve been in the pool, and I can’t have it down. I don’t wear a lot of makeup. Generally, I don’t like having a lot of my face. And so I would do this thing where I would do the shoot days, and I’d put all this makeup on and spit at my hair. And then I’d have a really good idea I have some time, but it wasn’t a shoot day. And I’d be like, I can’t create content today because I don’t look good enough. And so for me, I wanted to do that you don’t have to do that. But I really encourage you to think about just being the person you are today. We shouldn’t say this perfect. It doesn’t have to be perfection. It used to be that is very old school, it is about creating who you are. Because whoever you show up to them in a zoom call, or in a meeting is the person they need to see on camera. And so when we turn that video, that’s so important. You’ve got me today with my half eyebrows, but when I wrote something like a half I noticed this thing. And I think too, I don’t when I’m doing video content. I’m not sitting there trying to get my best side because when people talk to us, they see every side of us, they don’t just see like the perfect base side of us. And so show them those things that’s that makes them feel like they know you better and then they trust you more. So in terms of visual slab, that’s really important.
Hayley Maxwell 31:39
Yeah, absolutely. No, I really love that. And one of the things I wanted to talk about with you was your Dr. Seuss and your road cone outfits. And I know that you mentioned them in passing a little bit earlier. But yeah, I think that that kind of embodies you know, that whole, you know, stepping out and doing what feels fun and right and aligned to you and kind of as you say, owning that space and owning your own weird. And so can you talk to us a little bit about that.
Rachel Klaver 32:09
So I think a couple things. One, I haven’t done a lot recently, because it’s been so freaking hot road cone. I think last time I did it, I could feel the sweat trickling and behind without even really wearing anything underneath it. So I was like I am wearing so it’s cooler. So I do I have a whole wardrobe of costumes. I’ve got huge, big, I’ve got black and white angel wings, because I had this idea of doing like the good and the bad. Yeah, I think for me, this is where it slips into personal brand, but but actually having fun. I love drama as a kid. I’ve told this story before. But certainly on a podcast. I love drama, I wanted to be a singer and an actor. That’s what I wanted to be when I grew up. That’s what I wanted to do. I love performing. And I got one of the lead roles and a in high school production. I thought this is my big break. And it was like huge. And I was super excited. It was a big deal. And I had solos and I was like This is amazing. And then they hit me with you are going to be doing this number in the middle of the stage. And you’ll be wearing pants because I was a girl school. So I was at a male role wearing pants and they were very unflattering. And I was I was I’ve always been big. So like finding things that are good. And I read in 17 magazine that you should have three gaps in your legs, you should have one between your ankles and your calf between your your path and your knees. And then you should have the thigh gap. And I had the one between my calf, my ankles, my calf. And that was it. And I was like every single person in the audience will see the fact that I do not have a gap. And they will not accept me for being on that stage. And so I quit the role. And I feel like and I talk about this a lot because I’m 50 I’m Generation X. And I think that a lot of women in my generation really struggle we all do but really struggle with this idea that we had to be this perfected thing to be able to do it. And I think a lot of that has shifted, but obviously it’s still there. And I’m like that plus I really close to using the square but I am reclaiming the joy I used to get from performing. I love singing, I love performing. And it allows me to have fun and play and break that pattern of having to have something that is just me. So I can say things sometimes that I wouldn’t say I can put on a voice. I can use a voiceover if I want to. But it just allows me to do that. And you don’t have to do that. It’s really important. But for me, it makes me feel liberated.
Hayley Maxwell 34:39
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I love it. I think revisiting my Yeah, exactly. I think it’s just trying trying different things and seeing how they feel for you and taking, taking what you enjoy most and leaving the other bits behind and you know, just running with it and seeing what happens, you know, owning it, like if it feels really good to you own it, because then that is what’s going to help you to stand out. That’s what’s going to make people go, Oh, hey, like she’s doing something different here. This is, you know, this is fun or this is interesting, or, you know, they get value in a different kind of way that maybe is unexpected. And I talk about that unexpected factor quite a bit, because I think that that’s, that’s what we need to do in a way to is to break that is that pattern interrupt as well as being unexpected, because we hear so much of the same same. And so when needing to kind of break that pattern by being a little bit more unexpected. And that’s what has got a bit of attention.
Rachel Klaver 35:44
I think, too, for me, I, I’m a real believer, because I’m telling people to push their boundaries, I’ve got clients who truly hate the sound of their voice or truly hate the way they look, they have met, they’re beautiful people are all beautiful, but they have true problems with that. And I’m like, I’m not pushing against my own feelings of comfort. I am forgetting what it’s like for me now. And as I teach this, this is a really important I teach this video in particular, personal brand isn’t just video, but video is the fastest way to grow a personal brand, because they can see your expressions, they can tell whether you’re giving a shit right now, like they can tell. But what I do is I say, Look, when I’m doing it and turn to camera, and actually just thinking about my very favorite person in the world. He probably isn’t right, because he’d be rolling his eyes at half the stuff I do. He loves it. But he could be like, Oh my gosh, but I think about the person that I’m talking to. And I’m just looking for that person. And I’m thinking about that. And I’m thinking how am I going to love this person more? How am I going to serve this person more, I’m not thinking about the way I look. And from doing that, I have discovered that I love to move in videos, I’ve shown my whole body. I’ve one theory, unflattering clothes and a video and had amazing results from those and got clients from them. I use photos of myself where all 17 Chin’s are showing, you know, like, and it’s all worked. And people have come and been a client of mine, this idea that we’ve got to show perfection to get the clients we want, as eliminating our chance to choose have clients who truly love every aspect of who we are.
Hayley Maxwell 37:20
Yeah, absolutely. No, I really love that. How do you think that we can overcome that fear of showing up more as ourselves?
Rachel Klaver 37:32
That is an excellent question. It has nothing to do with you. I think that is the biggest thing is we are so scared of doing it. Because we were actually obsessed about ourselves. We obsessed about how we’re going to come across, and what people will think about us and all those things. And I had all those fears too. And I you mentioned in the thing I was I was put in a ad spoken at this big event actually been asked me it was like a big break as speaking at a book event. And people loved it, the head of the person that didn’t say we’re going to put you on a national tour. The other person that had been part of it hated that. And basically we know if you do that awkward like it was, it was a huge opportunity for me that got squashed by someone. And then about two weeks later that came up in this magazine saying I was a shameless self promoter. And it crushed me and I felt like it’s really bad to do that. But I, I back then I was promoting because I was a single mom of three kids and I had to make sure that I was feeding them. And I was given the power on and I wasn’t a shameless self promoter. I was terrified that I wasn’t gonna be able to support my family. And then it doesn’t identify with similar we grew really big team I it was poorly constructed. It was not the team’s fault was mine. And I was having to promote all the time then to sit to feed the bellies of the people that I had employed like I had to do the thing. And that that’s not a reason to promote, it’s like it’s a good way to instigate, but to maintain and build a really good brand. It has to stop being about you. And it has to be about the gift you’re giving someone what happens in their life, if you don’t share what you know, and how you know, and all those things. With the people in front of you. What will be the impact of them, focus on them, what are they going to miss out on? And how can you give it to them? And what is the best way to give that to them? And why would you let them miss out on you. And I think that was the thing that helped me understand that a personal brand is not about saving my business or making money. It is about you do make money, but it’s not about that. It’s about serving your audience and that helps me get up and take risks that helps me push through. That helps me do video on days. I don’t want to do it that helps me tune up and do alive. Even though you know I really would like to stay in bed today. It helps me do all those things. because it’s not about me.
Hayley Maxwell 40:03
Hmm. Yeah, absolutely. I love that. And I think the other thing, like, from my perspective, is that when we, quite often we get caught up in thinking that people are going to be thinking about us a lot more than they actually do. You know, like, I don’t, I think that sometimes, like, for example, you might think to yourself, oh, I can’t do that, because what will people think they might think X, Y, Zed, they might think this, that and the other, they’re gonna think, you know, blah, blah, blah. And those, those thoughts that we have, they are all valid, but the reality is, is that the other person that’s looking at your content, then they’re not going to be analyzing it to that that degree. That’s the thing I get so caught up in that thought pattern in our head that we don’t, we don’t remember, to sort of stop and take a breath and go, actually, that person is just going to be scrolling through on Instagram, they will start they’ll have a quick look, have a quick watch, and then they will sort of scroll on, and they’ll either vibe with us, you know, and enjoy what we’ve got to offer, or they won’t and that’s, that’s okay. It’s about really then, you know, repelling and attracting the right, right people. But really, at the end of the day, most people actually aren’t that interested and aren’t that focused on what we’re actually doing. How, like, how
Rachel Klaver 41:25
does that. For me, I think the other thing is I was I wanted to be liked, I was a huge people pleaser. And I wanted everyone to like me. And I can start simple didn’t. My the game changer for me, I hate using that phrase. But you know, the whole thing that changed my impact was when I realized, like I you know, when we talk about a website, we say, you know, a good converting website can be generally about one to 3% will take action that day, you know, 30% might take action within a month, and then another 33% will take action within a long period of time, then these 33% of people who go, this is not my person, I don’t like them. And so I applied that knowledge to my brain. And when a third of all people who come in contact with me will not like me will never want to work with me will never get me don’t want to be around me. And some of them might care enough a small portion, maybe one person might sometimes come and be nasty to me on the internet, and be a troll because they just for some reason, that’s what they’ve got to do. But the vast majority will just scroll on past they won’t care. And it was a it was such a release. And I think for me, and we talked about before, you know, I tried to be all these other things, and I tried to fit myself into stuff. And I think we do that we do that when we’re trying to work out our brand, as I would rather be hated for the person that I actually am, instead of the carbon copy of what I feel I should be and then be like, no, no, that’s not me. This is the real me. That’s a very exhausting, and I was stuck in that cycle for a very long time in my adult life of trying to be the thing that I thought people wanted. But then when they didn’t like it try to correct it with no, no, this is who I am. And they didn’t believe it because I’ve been presenting this Allah right show that I thought they’d like better.
Hayley Maxwell 43:11
Rachel Klaver 43:12
Just show up as who you are, like, people are gonna hate you, no matter what form of person you are. People also love you, but there will be always people who don’t like you. So just be who you are. And then they can make a call and then you can go which you obviously in theory, bad days moving on with someone else, you know, you can’t because you like, it isn’t really who I am. He’s the real person. Like, you can’t do it. Yeah,
Hayley Maxwell 43:37
no, exactly. Yeah, that’s a really, really good point. And so, from your perspective, what are some of the key things that people can do to stand out from the crowd? Like, if you were to give some sort of practical suggestions around how someone can actually start putting this into place? What are some of those key things that you would say to people to give a go
Rachel Klaver 44:00
that I want you so say, if we’re looking at Instagram, I you know, that’s a good one to use, because it’s so visual, don’t go and look at everyone else’s Instagram stuff, don’t go and do that. What I’d like you to do is step out of that and go and have a look at your wardrobe and find the clothes that you like, go and look at, go to a paint shop and look at what wallpapers and look at the colors you like. Go and think about the people that you hang out with and what people you like hanging out with most and who bring out the best of you and think about your real moments and create a brand from your real life and the things you like like there’s a whole lot of stuff around bigger brands using particular colors for psychology and stuff like that. But I’ve seen people on Instagram bro very engaged audiences with colors that are not trendy outfitting and things like that. There’s a really cool website called Creative market.com And one of the things that I did that really liberated me was I spent a good Good afternoon one time on the air It has all these different images, and you can download them and upload them into Canva as your own images. And so I went in and when I love this stuff, and it’s not, it’s my as I’m responding to it in some way. So we bought it was like 35 us or something downloaded them. And then we started using that in our brand and a million that made me feel like it was me. And I think, I think the mistake we make is we look on the internet at established accounts and think we’ve got to be like that. The trick is to step into your life, and actually look at what you really love and life and what you really enjoy. And then bring those elements, not all of it, but bring those elements in to create that brand. And if you do that, it really helps.
Hayley Maxwell 45:45
Yeah, absolutely. I think, yeah, I think places like Creative Market are great to go and check out and see what sort of things that you can use that are going to help your brand to feel more, you but yeah, the only downside with those is that like, Yo, like I sort of go on places like that, and I end up going down a whole
Rachel Klaver 46:07
brand. It’s funny, and I will just say like when we originally did it, we bought that my daughter helped me, she works with us. And she also was like I was getting ideas and saying what do you think of this, they’re really good, because my daughters are really good to go. That’s not your brand, or that’s not your like, they’re quite good at that too. And I think that’s the same thing to find out with people that you trust, like, do you think this is me, because they’ll go, that’s not really a reflection of who you are. And if everyone’s saying that, but you know, it’s you, there might be a disconnect from what you feel you’ve been doing, or what you’ve been showing people to like, there is there, but that people will start to say it and identify it. But the other thing with the creative, the Creative Market that I learned was I found this font that I loved, and I loud, I still love that font. But it didn’t actually respond well to Instagram, because it was quite hard to read on a small screen. So sometimes you do have to make adjustments that actually also about the usability. So we have there as one of our official fonts. But we have quite a blocky font that we use on Instagram just because it’s simpler to read. So, you know, there’s sometimes a technical thing to it. But I do recommend with brand colors, don’t overthink it, just go for stuff that really resonates with who you are. And then think about and look at your wardrobe like what do you like wearing and I’ve got a friend, Sarah, she was a little pink. So she naturally added that to your brand colors. But it also means that she can read that pink easily when she’s doing things, you know. So that’s part of it. I think the other thing, too is that voice is, is actually again, taking your mind off Instagram and spending that time to think about your isms. There’s a really good book I recommend people buy. It’s by a woman called Caroline Mays. It’s someone once called it the most expensive book for the number of words in it, which is called buyer like Beyonce. But what she does is she makes you like go through and write down like all the things that have happened in your life, and then you pull out from that. And that really helped me work out what my messaging was a little bit, because it helped me work out what were some things that threaded through that really counted for me. And so I think, I think for me, it, it’s, it’s, you know, I think we talked about this before the podcast app. But Natalie comb says, you know, being a business owner is the biggest personal self development journey you’ll ever take. And I think to build a brand, you do have to do some work on your personal development, if you don’t know who you are, and you can’t sum up your core values and who you are as a person and what you care about. If you don’t know that a personal brand building is going to be very difficult for you, that has to be done before you move forward and do that.
Hayley Maxwell 48:44
Yeah, absolutely. I definitely agree. And yeah, we did, we did touch on that. And I think that particularly things like your values really help you in terms of being having a filter, or most that you’re running everything through. And so and that comes down to, you know, everything that you are trying to do. So it might whether it’s you know, your brand colors, or what you’re talking about or your voice in particular, you know, always coming back to your values and saying do the things align with my values helps you to build a stronger brand, in my opinion. Yeah.
Rachel Klaver 49:26
So and I think it makes it easier. And just the other thing is is like a purely content framework, how to thing but you know, you do need to have a clearly defined niche or thing that you’re talking about. But then what I normally suggest you do is you create three underneath it that are kind of sub niches underneath that. And that helps with content creation and kind of tying everything together. So for example for I don’t think these are mine, I’m working on this today, so I’ve been reworking it but so for example our personal brand so if I say personal brand, one might be on mindset It one might be on the tools that you need. And another one might be on the strategy. So those are my three. And then I can have like little subgroups underneath that, that creates my content, and still keeps it I can still quite broad, but it’s within this lovely niche that’s sticking through and making it easier to do it.
Hayley Maxwell 50:18
Yeah, exactly. No, that’s fantastic. And so I think that that’s a really good place for us to kind of wrap up with this. But there are some questions that I would really love to ask you that I’m asking. Yes. And so the first of those is around, what does being fierce in business mean to you?
Rachel Klaver 50:40
So I feel like this is kind of what we talked about here. But for me being fierce is, as someone who was a single mom, who was a people pleaser, who was all those things, for me being fierce has been learning to be true to myself, and also to put my needs first, and I still struggle with this, you know, I am going through this myself at the moment learning to do that. Because if you don’t look after yourself first, you can’t fiercely protect everything else around you.
Hayley Maxwell 51:10
Absolutely. Yeah, yeah, I really love that. And I, but I think it’s it’s like you said, it’s really hard to actually, for us to do and to keep doing, you know, sometimes we think to ourselves, yeah, going to really put myself first look after myself. But then it’s not long before we slide back into those old ways. Again,
Rachel Klaver 51:32
I’m learning to do it. I’m in a real place where I am definitely doing it. And I’ll just give an example over the weekend. What my daughter asked if she’d like if I could do something with her. And I said that thinking, No, I really don’t want to do that. And it was actually everyone laughed, because it was so unlike what I do. But what’s happening is my brain is actually starting to really be clear around what’s good for me to do and what’s not good for me to do. And I’m, I’m not quite used to keeping it in my inside voice at the moment. But I’m learning it’s obviously me developing this thing of going actually, I’m gonna keep really firmed of these boundaries. And I think it is very important, you know, as businesswomen, who also often have children and other things we’re doing and all those things, we do have to fiercely protect the needs of ourselves to be looked after. Because if we don’t, you can’t be consistent with building a brand.
Hayley Maxwell 52:19
No, that’s it. Yeah, you end up running on empty, don’t you? And it’s everything kind of goes out the window. Exactly. And so what impact do you want to make with your your business?
Rachel Klaver 52:32
So I started my career as a teacher as a primary school teacher. And to be honest, the impact is exactly the same as it was then there is nothing more amazing for me then watching the light go on someone else’s eyes when they’ve learned something. And I don’t really care how many people I do that with, you know, it’s not a numbers game for me. But if I can be doing that on a regular basis, that is the impact that I want to give.
Hayley Maxwell 52:58
Yeah, that’s amazing. I love that. And what’s one piece of advice that you’ve been given that’s kind of made an impact on how you do business or how you approach it.
Rachel Klaver 53:10
As it’s a painful one, I am a shiny object syndrome person, I love anything. I love it, I get very distracted. So my piece of advice has actually come from my husband rod, who is our business, but my business partner as well. Every time I come up with an idea, he says does it align with the big picture? And so I am learning to internalize that question. So now when I suggest something to him, I go. And yes, I’ve checked it does align with the big picture. So that has really helped me because we can get very distracted. But if we know what the big goal is, and whether I also saw lambda values and what we’re doing at the moment and what our goals are for the year, I wanted to do a really cool project I’ve been waiting to do. I’ve just finished my book. And I was like now’s my time to this cool project. And he said, Oh, you can do that project. But there are these things we’ve committed to already and have you finished with the planning for these? And I was like, No, I haven’t. So I you know, like that’s really important for me, I still need help with that I am constantly shouting Oh, Jim syndrome, distracted all the time. Yeah, I completely
Hayley Maxwell 54:13
resonate with that. And I think that’s a fantastic piece of advice. Because it yeah, if you are, you know, a shiny object syndrome chaser, you know, you chase all the objects like you know, we do, it is so easy to be pulled off course and actually not be able to make that kind of impact that you want to make because you’re diluting everything that you’re doing is becoming diluted because you’re spreading yourself so, so thinly and I think you’re completely right in terms of you know, what your husband said around that piece of advice is that when you have got that focus and when you know things like your values, as we talked about earlier, it becomes that filter and that that check in point, you know, this is what I’m doing. These are the value views that I’ve got, does this align with those things that I’ve already said I’m going to be doing? If yes, then Okay, great. If no, then, okay, that needs to be put to the side for now until such a time, as you know, is right. So yeah, I think that’s an awesome piece of advice to those annoying,
Rachel Klaver 55:18
Hayley Maxwell 55:23
And so if you know my audience and listeners, they want to come and check you out, which I highly recommend that you do. Where can they find you let us know all the places to come and stalk you. So definitely
Rachel Klaver 55:35
check out the podcast method marketing, we’d love it if you come and be part of our Facebook group, my method marketing, because I share lots of stuff in the air, around marketing for small businesses. So you’re very welcome to be part of that group. And you can come and see us at identify marketing club, Lindsay’s if you’re wanting a marketing strategy. But really, the momentum hacking Facebook group is my place of joy. I love being able to give into that group. So please come and be a part of that. And check out the podcast network marketing.
Hayley Maxwell 56:02
Awesome. I will put links to all of those in the show notes as well to make it nice and easy. But thank you so so much for coming on today, Rachel, and for sharing all this really gold content and information with us. So
Rachel Klaver 56:15
it was a pleasure. And for everyone listening. I’m also hoping to have Haley on my podcast very soon. So we’ll be sure that you hopefully will listen to that, too. She’ll be amazing.
Hayley Maxwell 56:28
Well, wasn’t that an awesome episode, I really hope that you enjoyed our conversation. And I really hope that it gave you lots of food for thought in terms of some of the ways that you can differentiate yourself and stand out from the crowd. If this is a topic that you are really interested in, then make sure you tune in for future episodes because it’s something I’m going to be talking about a lot more so talking about things like your brand message and brand positioning and how those things can help you to really stand out in a sea of sameness. And so if you really enjoyed this episode, I would love it if you could rate and review the show. It would mean the absolute world to me and also it helps other people to decide whether or not to listen. And if you’d like to find out more about me and my services and my copywriting freebies, then head on over to Hayley maxwell.com And until next time, go forth and be fierce