Brand positioning and messaging coach, ferocious ice cream eater and leopard print lover.
I'm here to help talented women with personal brands to rise up and make fierce waves in the minds of their ideal clients by helping them to carve out their powerful position and clarify the big message they want to become known for.
So they can become:
- The ONLY choice for their idea clients.
Does marketing feel a tad overwhelming? A bit like you’re throwing spaghetti at the wall to see what sticks?
If so, this episode dives into how you can use marketing strategy to form a genuine connection with your audience, without needing to follow all the trends, be on all the platforms, or do ALL the marketing things!
Instead my fabulous guest, Wendy Tibbotts from ZigZag Marketing, talks about how taking small but highly focused steps can help you to create a sustainable approach to marketing consistently.
Connect with me
On Instagram @hayleymaxwellwrites
People and resources mentioned in this episode
Wendy Tibbotts website
Wendy Tibbotts socials
ZigZag Marketing Results Club
Hayley Maxwell 0:06
Welcome to the fierce impact podcast. I’m your host, Hayley Maxwell brand clarity and messaging coach, copywriter, ferocious ice cream eater and leopard print lover. If you’re ready to harness the incredible brand building power of words, so you can become memorable, meaningful, and the only real choice for your dream clients. This is the podcast for you. Let’s get started
well, hello, hello, my friend, and welcome to the fierce impact podcast. How you doing? Can you believe we’re nearly at the end of October? I can’t believe it not even my kids can believe it. Christmas is only two months away. Oh, is it too soon to mention the C word? Probably not. If you’re anything like my mother in law, you’ve already got the Christmas shopping done and dusted. But look, I like to look at it in a positive light, there is still two months left in the year. And you can still make some fierce and courageous moves in your business in that time. Now, I’m not here to waffle on about Christmas. So let’s get on to the topic of today’s episode. I’m chatting with Wendy Tibbets from zigzag marketing, all about marketing in a genuine and sustainable way. And I wanted to talk about this topic with Wendy. Because as business owners, we often feel the pressure to do all the things when it comes to marketing. But for most of us, that’s simply not a sustainable approach. So many business owners feel like they’re throwing spaghetti at the wall when they’re marketing, trying to get something or anything to stick. So Wendy and I talk about the importance of taking a strategy first approach. And Wendy breaks down exactly what strategy means because it’s a word that’s thrown around a lot. But I don’t think that everyone understands exactly what it is exactly what it means and what it can do for your business. So I love this conversation with Wendy. And I really hope that you do too. Now, before we jump into the interview, just a quick reminder that my upcoming live workshop on Earth, your momentous message is next week on Thursday, the third of November. If you are struggling to distill your message, and you need a little bit of help, then this is the workshop for you. I’ll be diving into how to uncover that big idea that you have behind your message. We’ll talk about what makes the message momentous, we’ll clarify what you want to be known for how to define your messaging, pillars and a lot more. And you’ll actually start to do some of the work during the workshop. And there’ll be a time for a q&a at the end. So if you can’t attend live, you’ll also receive the replay and you can also send me a message if you want me to answer it during the call. If you want to find out more jump on over to my website, Hayley maxwell.com forward slash messaging workshop. Now onto today’s episode. So as I said just now my guest today is Wendy Tibbets, a marketing strategist and coach. Wendy started zigzag creative now called zigzag marketing in 2016, because she wanted to help business owners to market themselves more effectively. Wendy has worked in marketing since 2006, and is also an ex graphic designer, a mum of two, a passionate Baker and a travel lover. Zigzag marketing helps established business owners to make more sales and grow their businesses through one to one coaching. And through Wendy’s membership results club. Wendy is passionate about helping business owners to understand the different ways in which you can promote your business. Because marketing is about more than social media here here to that. So without further ado, here is today’s interview. Welcome to the birth impact podcast Wendy, how you doing?
Wendy Tibbotts 4:39
Good. Thank you. Thank you very much for having me here.
Hayley Maxwell 4:42
Thank you for joining me. I’m really excited to get into this conversation. I think that you know marketing is such a big topic and you know, there’s so much to it that and I think particularly around those some of those mindset issues and things like that when it comes to mark Doing so really keen to jump into our conversation today all around, you know how you can market your business in a more sort of sustainable aligned way to you and your values and that kind of thing. So, yeah, really looking forward to it. But first of all, before we kind of kick off, do you want to just tell us a little bit about your business journey, sort of how you got to where you are today?
Wendy Tibbotts 5:25
Okay, well, I started my business in 2016. So I was called psexec, creative. I just had my second child, she was about two months old. And I registered my business I discovered recently, when looking at my records, I can’t believe that I had the foresight or the clarity or the energy to do anything like that. But I knew I didn’t want to go back to my corporate gig, I loved working, but I just knew that with two children, that and my husband used to travel quite a lot for work as well, it was just going to be too hard. So I had a bucket load of skills that I knew I could sell as services. So I had always worked as both a graphic designer and a marketer. So I started off doing all the things I had, I was like a mini agency of one offering all these services. But as time went on, I needed to niche down. And so I decided to focus simply on marketing, because I love marketing. But I also discovered that it was, it was actually a lot easier to deliver the marketing services than the graphic design and web design services. And so I decided to go with what I was enjoying more. And so I have, my business has just evolved from delivering services for clients to doing a lot more one on one and group coaching. Because I’m finding a lot of the people that I work with actually want to learn how to do things themselves, rather than just outsource everything. And even if they are going to outsource something they look for that it’s really helpful for them to know a little bit more about the topics so that when they do outsource they get the right support that they need. So yeah, that’s what I do now.
Hayley Maxwell 7:15
Yeah, awesome. And I think you’re right, when you talk about the fact that kind of your businesses has evolved over time, and you’ve sort of started off, you know, with a whole lot of different services. I think that often happens in business that we it takes us a little while to find our own flow, and to find what we enjoy the most. And so it is almost that process of as you go through your business kind of year by year, you sort of start to shed the things that you know, and no longer lighting you up or are no longer serving you in the way that you want to run your business.
Wendy Tibbotts 7:50
Yeah. And I think when you first start, you’re just excited that anyone would want to pay you to do what you do. You’re just okay. So it’s just a natural evolution, I think I think it’s a really common, particularly also that that journey of being a mother and deciding that you’re wanting a more flexible lifestyle in order to work and parent in a way that works works for you. I think that’s a really common way to start.
Hayley Maxwell 8:21
Yeah, exactly. And so what is it about marketing that you love the most
Wendy Tibbotts 8:27
is interesting. I did. I studied at Otago University and I went I I live in Christchurch, I was grew up in Christchurch. And so I went down to Otago to actually do graphic design, and I was studying English as well of all things. And then I walked into marketing 101 class. And like the first lecture, it was like, the light bulbs went off, I was like, This is what this is what I I find interesting. So it’s that, that how we sell, and how we promote what we do. And because of I always had a passion for graphics and design, I could see how it worked really well together. And so yeah, from that very first marketing 101 class, I was like, Ah, this is what I find really, really interesting there. You know, all the different parts of the journey and marketing because marketing is marketing is not just about how we sell. It’s how we deliver. It’s how we look after the people that we work with. It’s, it’s, you know, the complete, it’s the holistic approach of a business and how we communicate that, you know, to the world around us to our audience. So yeah, I just really love all of it. Does that make sense?
Hayley Maxwell 9:42
Yeah, absolutely. It does, I think. Yeah. And you’re so right, there is so much more to it then then just the marketing activities themselves. So those those Absolutely I know we’re going to dive into that in a little bit, but I think it is also thinking about some of those other things like the way that you’re at really delivering your services and the experience that you’re giving clients. That is also, in a way, it’s its own form of marketing. Because if you’re giving clients a superior service and a really great experience, then they are going to go out and market your business for you, because they will relate to you and talk about you and that sort of thing. So it’s thinking about it, like you say, from that holistic perspective as well, you so
Wendy Tibbotts 10:29
definitely thinking about that, that customer journey, and making sure that this is something that I have a marketing membership called results club, and this is one of the things that we we touch on quite often is, the customer journey is more about that that first initial growing awareness of who you are and what you do. Often, that’s what people think about with marketing, I have to get my name out there. You know, I have to make sure people know who out who I am and who my business what my business does and what I sell. That’s true. But there’s so much more after that, that adds value to the customer. And I think there’s so much that we can do as business owners throughout that that customer journey that can be of such value to your audience and can make them love what you do and who your business is even more.
Hayley Maxwell 11:18
Yeah, absolutely. I couldn’t, couldn’t agree more with that. I think so let’s let’s start off with the mindset piece. Because this is a really big piece when it comes to marketing your business. And I know that it’s, it’s often one of the biggest challenges that that people have is around putting themselves out there actually cultivating that mindset and overcoming some of those fears and challenges to get get themselves out there and create that awareness. What would you say some of those, you know, the biggest mindset blocks are that people have,
Wendy Tibbotts 11:55
I think, particularly with the rise of social media, and how much social media plays a part in marketing these days. And people thinking, I need to show up, I need to show up online. And I would say that, in general, yes, you do need to show up online, you do need to put a face behind the brand, and your business. And that is how we create connection. But often that is such a scary thought, you know, people don’t necessarily start a business because they’re the sort of person that wants to put themselves out there, you know, they start a business because they’re good at what they do. Or they start a business because they’re passionate about an industry. And so I definitely think that showing up online is the thing that people find the most challenging. And I just like to work with my clients and my my results, club members, just to do it in a way that feels authentic and right to them. There, I don’t believe that we all need to be doing dancing tiktoks, or lip syncing reels in order to create connection with our audience. There are ways to create connection without doing what, what doesn’t feel right to us. So it’s really about being authentic to who you are as a person, and what the values are of your brand as well. And so thinking about how we can do that. And on what which platforms are best for your business?
Hayley Maxwell 13:30
Yeah, absolutely. And I think that, you know, one of the things that I know that people sort of struggle with is is not just putting themselves out there, it really comes down to the fear or the worry around what other people are going to think of them as well. You know, if I say this, what are people going to think? Or if I do this, what are they going to think? Will they stop following me? Will they unsubscribe, all of those things kind of feed into that that fear of, of marketing ourselves as well?
Wendy Tibbotts 14:03
Oh, absolutely. And so one of the things I like to talk to people about is one, people only watch things they’re interested in, people only pay attention when they’re interested. Okay, you’ll get the odd view that they may watch things that they’re just because they’re curious. But in general, people don’t have time to watch content to engage with content that is not of interest to them. So, you know, if people aren’t interested, they will scroll on past and the first few seconds, and they won’t see anyway. So I like to kind of remind people of that, that when you’re putting yourself out there and people are watching the people that are interested, we’ll watch. So the other thing that I think is really important to remember is that we actually want to attract people who are interested in what we do. Do we actually want to put off people that don’t vibe with us. So there is always that fear that someone won’t agree with you. Or they won’t like the way you come across in your emails, or they won’t, you know what that is okay? Let them unsubscribe, let them unfollow you. Because you are far better off having people in your audience that are engaged and interested in what you’ve got to say, then people that are in your audience that don’t engage or don’t open emails, because it actually ruins your open rates and your, you know, your your engagement rates, it actually affects all the back end algorithms stuff. So wave them off, see you later, you know, it is absolutely fine, because you want to attract the people that are interested in what you have to say. So when you show up, and perhaps have some unpopular opinions, or, or, you know, take a certain stance on something that is relative to you know, your industry in your business, you will attract the right people. And that is how we start attracting the type of customers that we really want to work with and really want to sell to that is that are easier to sell to. Because they are aligned in their thinking with you.
Hayley Maxwell 16:20
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And I talk about this a lot. It’s around, you know, where we actually want to be actively attracting the right people but also actively repelling. Absolutely, Paul for us. So there is no, there is no shame in in basically sort of saying that, you know, you’re not the right person for me. So in being clear in our communication that we’re putting out there, you know, this is this is who we are, and this is what we stand for. So I think, yeah, it’s making sure that we’re always constantly thinking, well, how can I attract the right people? And how can I repel those who aren’t actually a good, a good fit? And, and celebrating? Another thing I say is, you know, celebrate when people unsubscribe and things like that, because then they’re obviously not a fit for you. And that’s, that’s okay, you know, and they’ve slowly Yeah, okay. So I think it’s, it’s just being really conscious of that. And so and, and flipping the mindset around it, because I think all too often we sort the ask, you know, what, have I done someone’s unsubscribed? And actually, we can think about it in a different way. And that is that’s, that’s, that’s good, you know, really good for them, they’ve decided that I’m not the right fit. That’s awesome for them. And it’s awesome for me as well. So I think flipping it and thinking about it in that perspective is is really good, because it’s nothing that you’ve done, per se, no. And I think that’s the other mindset piece when it comes to marketing is that we attach too much emotion to our marketing, I think in a way, you know, we make it about us far more than it actually needs to be about us as well. Would you Would you agree with that?
Wendy Tibbotts 18:10
Absolutely. Oh, look, and I just recently branded my car. And I would have happily driven around and a branded car for any other business that I’d worked for, without flinching. But like, you know, particularly if I was in a job, and someone gave me a brain a cat, okay, sure, no worries. But I put off branding my own cat, because I felt exposed. I felt like, that’s my business baby. On the outside. You know, it’s just, it’s just a logo and some graphics. It’s not I haven’t got my face plastered all over it. But it did feel. It’s I mean, it was only a couple of weeks ago that I did it. I’m still getting used to it. But it was interesting that it took me quite a long time to get to that point to decide to do that. Because, yeah, I think it’s because we wouldn’t say our own business, and we put our heart and soul into everything that we do is very personal. So yeah, that’s definitely something that we need to work on is thinking about things that happen in business, even though it’s even though our business is personal to us. The things that happen around our business and the decisions people make, you know, to unsubscribe or whatever it’s not, it’s not actually personal. It’s not because they don’t think you’re a good person or a nice person or it’s nothing. It’s not even about you as a person. It sometimes is about them having too many emails or in wanting to simplify their systems or knowing that they follow you on social media anyway, and knowing that they find out what’s going on that way. So
Hayley Maxwell 19:44
yeah, they just don’t need that kind of help at that moment in time. salutely. Yeah, exactly. That’s it. So So let’s jump into the strategy side of marketing. So one of the things that I think people I find quite hard is, you know, we talk a lot about strategy. So you need this strategy, that strategy, whatever it might be, you know, it’s all got, we’ve got to have strategy in place. But I think that, from a conceptual perspective, it’s quite hard to get our heads around what strategy actually is. So what I’d really like to do is to break down what actually is a marketing strategy? So can you, you know, help us with that?
Wendy Tibbotts 20:30
Absolutely. So yeah, I find that strategy is a word that gets bandied around, and people kind of think, yeah, the strategy I’m using is, blah, blah, blah. And they, it’s kind of, like marketing, speak, you know, like, it’s like to say that they’re using strategies and but I think, in my opinion, the simplest way to understand what strategy is, is it’s the how it’s how you’re going to do things in your business. So it’s how you are going to market. So I do a lot of work with marketing planning with my, my members and my group. So we talk about goals. To start off with, we have goals, which are long term aims that you want to accomplish. And from there, we move down to our objectives. So they’re the specific achievements that will help us achieve our goals. So everything works backwards. So with objectives, I like to talk about smart objectives, specific achievements that will achieve our goals. And then the next thing down is strategy. So that is how we are going to achieve our objectives that will achieve our goals. So that’s, it’s the how, and then we get into the tactics. And often, this is when I see a lot of people go, I’m going to do some marketing. i Okay, great. So we need to make more sales. That’s the goal. They haven’t been specific about it. They just got we’ve got to make more sales. And they jumped straight down to tactics. And they say, Let’s advertise on Facebook. Yeah, and to me, you’ve missed two vital steps, the figuring the specifics out with the objectives of exactly what you want to want to do. And then the strategy, which is how, so the marketing tactics, the other tools and activities that use strategy to achieve our objectives. I’ve got an example the best example, I try to relate it to things that people can understand. So say my goal is to become a runner. Definitely not me, I have tried running, I’m really not built for speed or endurance. But say I wanted to become a runner. That’s my goal. So my objective is more specific, I’m going to run 21 kilometers, on the 25th of January. Okay, so I’ve got specific objective. So I could just start then putting my runners on, and going around the block a few times, that would be jumping straight into my tactics. But instead, I know, I’m going to be far more likely to have success with this goal of becoming a runner, if I actually have a strategy. So what is my strategy, you know what I’m going to get a running buddy for accountability. That is how I’m going to achieve my objectives, and my goals. So that running buddy for accountability will actually make sure that I can actually stick at this goal. I’m also going to sign up to a running group because I know I get training, support and nutrition advice. So they are the strategies that I’m using to become a runner, if I had just decided to become a runner, and now I need to run three to four times a week, I’m much less likely to have success with that. So then the tactics that flow on. So these are the tactics, use your strategy to achieve your objectives which reach your goal. So the tactics would be, you know, running three or four times a week with my buddy. I’m following a training schedule to build endurance. I’m eating healthy, and following the nutrition plan that I got from my running group, you know, and I participate in the group training in the running group. You can see how I’m actually going to achieve my goals of becoming a runner, and actually running that 25k Sorry, that 21k on the 25th of January, it’s going to be so much easier to achieve. Yeah, so I find thinking about it like that really helps. definitely thinking about strategy as how
Hayley Maxwell 24:36
Yeah, I think that’s that’s right. Isn’t it? I love I love that example. Because it breaks it down really simply to into the house or the strategy and then also, okay, so what what am I doing? So the doing part bing, bing, the tactics essentially.
Wendy Tibbotts 24:53
Yeah, and like I say, I say it a lot and I think it’s, it’s also because figuring out strategy can be a little bit cool. refusing, it can be a little bit, I’m not really sure what it means. And so I’m just going to skip there. And I’m just going to do what I’ve seen other people do, which is go on these platforms or advertise on this printed media, or I’m just going to launch straight into the, into the tactics. But by by doing the strategy and actually figuring out how we want to do something, and often talk about it with clients with regards to how they want to grow their business, rather than just putting things out there, they can grow in a way that they don’t want to grow, you know, or start promoting things that aren’t in their best interest to actually grow the business strategically. So, yeah, definitely getting really clear at that strategic strategy stage can make such a difference and actually makes choosing which tactics, which activities to do so much easier. You know, I’ve had, I had a client that she was always being approached about advertising and certain publications. But when she actually did the work, and looked at how she wanted to grow her business, she realized that that side of her business, did not need promotion, because all the stuff she was already doing organically, her emails or social media, it was bringing in enough work. So she didn’t actually need to promote that service, she needed to promote a different service. And so that’s how she was going to grow her business by growing that particular service, not this other one. And what it meant was when she would be approached this is by wedding magazine companies, because she’s a business that has a an event venue, like a wedding venue, she was able to say, Thanks for the offer, I don’t need it. I don’t need to advertise. Whereas often people just feel pressured that they need to make these decisions about where to advertise or spend money. But actually, if you have a strategy at all becomes clearer. And you can actually say yes to the right stuff, and say no to the rest of it. And I think that’s quite empowering to be able to go, I know what I’m doing. I can say no to that. Yeah,
Hayley Maxwell 27:12
yeah, completely. I think that’s the word that came to mind when you were talking about it is, it’s really empowering, when you actually sit down to work out where you actually want to go. So what is it that I actually want to achieve? And then and how am I going to figure out the best way to achieve that, you know, what is going to be the most effective way for me to hit those goals with my marketing, so much else becomes a lot clearer and easier, and that it takes the weight off your shoulders in terms of some of those decisions, like you said, that you’ve got got to make because it becomes much more black and white, you know, yes, this, this is a good opportunity. No, that opportunity doesn’t align with where I’m heading at the moment. So I’m going to say no to it.
Wendy Tibbotts 28:02
And that also takes that the personal side out of it. It’s not, I’m saying no to you. And your opportunity, I’m saying, for my business, it doesn’t make any sense to do that. This is a really easy decision for me. You don’t have to I know sometimes people struggle with that with saying no, or, you know, thinking that they’re missing out on opportunities, because they’re not taking them up or whatever. But it actually just becomes just a business decision. It’s just really clear, like, I don’t need to grow that I don’t need to spend money on ads and that publication it’s it’s that’s all it is great publication love what you do, but I don’t need it.
Hayley Maxwell 28:42
Yeah, completely. I think that if you if you don’t have those goals and objectives, if you’re not sure where you’re trying to get to, then what happens is you end up throwing spaghetti at the wall in terms of all the different tactics that you’re going to try. And that’s what leads to a lot of overwhelm in business. And I think certainly from from my experience of working with, with clients, when they have been feeling overwhelmed about having to do all the different things, it really comes down to actually not knowing exactly where they’re wanting to go, not not being completely clear on in my case, you know, what they want to be known for, you know, and where they’re wanting to take their their business and it means that they don’t have a clear idea of what it is they actually want to be talking about. And it’s exactly the same with you know, your your specific marketing tactics that you’re using, you know, if you don’t know where you’re going, what you want to be known for what your goals are, then you’re just going to be throwing all sorts of tactics out there and trying so many different things and you’re not going to get that flow and momentum going And in a way that’s actually going to be beneficial to your business.
Wendy Tibbotts 30:04
Absolutely. And then, even with the types of so even just deciding what activities to do, but the knowing what to do and those activities, so, say you’re doing email marketing, what are you going to put it? What copy you work with clients in this space? What copy you’re going to put on your website? What are the messages that you’re getting across, and your social media, if you don’t have that clear, strategic direction, then that is when you say, I don’t know what to post online. I don’t know what to write a blog about. When I first started moving into that, coaching space, rather than the done for you side of things in my business, I had to stop delivering content, which told people how to fix something and their social media, you know, like books, like social media tips and tricks, that you Yes, I can absolutely give the this is the kind of advice I give clients when we’re working together. If they need help on something, I can always give them some feedback on that. But that is not what I wanted to be known for. And that is not how I wanted to grow my business. And so, you know, when people go, I don’t know what to post on social, I don’t know what to put on email. Honestly, it does all come back to strategy as well. Like just figuring out how you want to grow, we want to grow and then being, it just makes it so much clearer to decide how you’re going to speak.
Hayley Maxwell 31:31
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I think just just spending that time to sit down and really work through your strategy, you know, is such a worthwhile time. I know that, you know, we’re also strapped for time and resource and that sort of thing. But actually sitting down and working through what some goals are that you want to achieve. You know, even if it’s fought for a 90 day sprint, for example, I think is just so worth worth doing. Because it saves you so much time in the back end, you know, saves you so much energy and overwhelm and all the rest of it, because you’re just so much, much clearer essentially,
Wendy Tibbotts 32:15
yes. And then when you sit down at your desk, really to say, you know, you’ve you’ve allocated some time this is what I do suggest for clients is that they actually book in time to work on the marketing. And this is one of the ways in which you can show up and be more consistent with doing marketing is actually making it part of your week. And maybe it’s Tuesday mornings, maybe it’s Thursday afternoons, you always work on your marketing. And so when you sit down to do that you actually and you know, you need to work on some social media, you need to write a blog, you might need to respond to a few different things, you know, what you need to be saying, because you’ve got a plan for how you’re going to be marketing your business over that period, or you’ve got specific products or services that you’re really wanting to push. And then you know the type of language in which you can use and the type of messages that will you need to be talking about. And so it actually makes sitting down at your desk to do the marketing, so much more time effective, you’re actually making far better use of your time, because you know what you need to be saying.
Hayley Maxwell 33:16
So when it comes to creating sort of a marketing approach for your business, what is the best approach for us to take so that we can start marketing in a more consistent, sustainable way that’s going to help us to grow, but that really aligns with who we are as as business owners and our values.
Wendy Tibbotts 33:41
So the only way for us to be consistently showing up and for it to be sustainable, as if it’s authentic. You know, you cannot continue to show up in ways that doesn’t, that don’t feel right for you. So one of the things I like to work on with clients is brand strategy. And I know that you’re pretty passionate about this as well. So really, knowing that you know, your brand is more than just your logo, your name or your slogan, it’s the entire experience your prospects and customers have with your company. So you have to really think about what your brand stands for, what does it aspire to be, you know, what are the values that your business stands for, and when we’re really clear on those, they helped determine, you know, what we believe in how we behave and what we stand for. And so, that actually helps us to show up in a way that is authentic. So you know, you think about particularly with your values, like you know the unique ways that you deliver value within your products and services. So having clarity around the messaging will help you determine how to show up in a way that is authentic, so you know if you are targeting As a young demographic, with a makeup product, you know, you’re going to have to show up differently for your brand than if you are a service provider, selling insurance, you know, you need to. So it’s what your brand and your business where it sits. But it’s also thinking about your audience, and what will resonate with them. And so it can be quite hard, if potentially what will resonate with your audience doesn’t feel right to you. And so that takes a little bit of adjustment and figuring out but I do find that in general, you know, people are running businesses that they are passionate about, and that are aligned with your own personal values. And then those values also align with your audience. So the ways in which you show up will work. An example, there’s a business called remarkable Myers. I don’t know if you’ve heard of them. They’re a New Zealand business. They talk a lot about dyslexia. And they have been showing up doing tech to I’m not sure if it’s just tech talks are definitely seeing reels that they’ve been doing. And they are fabulous. They are talking to camera, talking about living with ADHD, or dyslexia and as an adult, and then the way that they’re doing that is just literally through talking through an unreal. So they’re showing up on Instagram and putting a face and creating connection between adults living. And you know, working with dyslexia and ADHD, I just think it’s really cool to see what they’re doing.
Hayley Maxwell 36:34
Yeah, absolutely. I think the other thing as well is, is leaning into what you enjoy doing most as well in marketing.
Wendy Tibbotts 36:43
That’s true. Although I have also seen with clients, I think, sometimes what happens with email marketing is people don’t like getting emails themselves. And particularly, maybe e commerce businesses. I’ve had a couple of clients one at a shoe store that I’ve worked with, and the owner doesn’t really love getting emails herself, and she wasn’t overly keen on sending them out. And so I get that. And then so doing her emails weren’t something that she was finding that fun to do. However, once she gave it a go, what she realized she was making sales from those emails, you know, her shows are stunning. And her audience love the shows, and so is what sometimes we have to get over. Some of those things that we don’t want to do. Because it is actually really can be really successful for our business. But I do find that if there are certain marketing activities that you really hate doing that potentially, that is something that you should outsource to someone else. You know, it might be that you look after everything else, but you know what, I know, emails create sales, I just don’t want to do them. And that is where you can work with an expert to deliver them in much shorter timeframe and more professionally, probably, then you could do yourself. So that is where it’s a good option.
Hayley Maxwell 38:06
Yeah, that’s a really good point. And I think but it raises again, that question of, actually, if you’re feeling like that, so let’s take email marketing as an example. Because we know it’s one that a lot of people, you know, have this this struggle around. And I think it is about also sitting down and asking ourselves, what is it about this particular platform or this particular type of marketing? That doesn’t feel right, to me? And, and why and digging into that? Because quite often it is it is around that mindset piece and working through it and asking ourselves, you know, why is and looking at it from that truth perspective? Is it true that everyone hates getting marketing emails? Is it true that I am being salesy by sending these marketing emails, so working through it from that perspective is a really important thing to do. Because I think when we can break down some of those mindset barriers around some of these marketing activities, then it enables us to actually go ahead and do it and then begin to enjoy it because we actually see that we’re starting to get some results. And it might be people emailing back to say, hey, that was a really good email, or hey, this came up really the right time because I was just thinking about this or hey, you know, like, actually, I really needed to hear your message today. But actually sitting down and asking ourselves why it feels so hard is a really important thing to do.
Wendy Tibbotts 39:44
Yeah, and a couple of things I like to talk to people about around this mindset about showing up and sharing things and sending emails and all that stuff is one is being of service so If people are engaging with your business, because they like what you do, as I said, they don’t tend to watch content, or open emails from people that they’re not interested in. And then so when we’re selling is, is actually in marketing is actually being of service to those people in your audience. So while we may have some hang ups about pushing asset, you know, our, our business onto people through email, they actually see that email and say, That’s brilliant, I needed that I’m so glad I got that reminder. So definitely thinking about it from a place of being of service is helpful. The other thing is to definitely look at that feedback, look at your customer feedback, your testimonials, that the texts, the responses you get from people, because that is proof of what that what you do matters, that, you know that you have got something of value to share with the world. And you need to keep doing that, because there’s more people out there like your amazing customers you’ve already had. So it’s, it’s kind of reminding ourselves of those things now. Now, and again, there are times that, you know, potentially a platform or a type of marketing is just not in alignment with our values and our business. So, and that is where we look at it from a really strategic perspective and say, Is this aligned with with what we believe in as a business and what feels right. And sometimes, you know, it’s a no, but other times, like you say, it’s that mindset block holding us back?
Hayley Maxwell 41:36
Yeah. Is this is this the most effective use of my time to be marketing in this particular space? Or am I better putting the energy and work that it would take to be here? Is it better to actually put it over here instead, or double down on this particular thing that I’m already doing? So it’s making those strategic decisions? And, and like we talked about earlier, it’s really hard to make those decisions. If you actually don’t know, the goals that you’ve you’re wanting to set for yourself, or where you’re actually trying to get to in the first place.
Wendy Tibbotts 42:11
Yeah, exactly. So coming back to marketing planning, it can sound boring, and it can sound overwhelming, like you say, it’s, you know, taking time out of your business to work on this stuff can be challenging, but you can see that it actually it has such a big smile on her feet, on all your marketing decisions. And just gives you that clarity about where you can, what you can be doing, it just makes it makes all those decisions so much easier.
Hayley Maxwell 42:36
And one of the things that I really love talking about is around personality, and bringing your person being yourself in your marketing, letting your personality shine out, because it’s one of the ways that I believe we can really stand out now online and an is another way to help us become remembered, essentially, because people remember us for you know who, who we are. So what do you say to clients when they come to you, and they sort of have reservations about maybe showing up as themselves online?
Wendy Tibbotts 43:13
Well, I think it’s important to realize that we don’t have to show our entire life online, and all our deepest darkest secrets, or insecurities or anything, yeah, we don’t have to be sharing everything, just share our personality. So you can decide which parts that you keep to yourself. And it might be you need to show your family. But you may talk about having a family because that connects with your audience who are also, you know, mums or or parents you know. So you can talk about having a family without putting pictures of your kids over everything. You know, you can mention that at school holidays, and you’re doing this or you might have a picture of the back of the kids walking in. Like it might be a story and you’re out and about doing something. And you can see little kids speech or something. But you don’t have to show everything. So I think it’s just being selective about what we show. The other thing is, I think it’s it’s getting used, it’s showing up in a way that you’re okay with. and I were I was talking with some of my members recently and trying to encourage them to do more stories to get that behind the scenes feel of their business. Because once again, people don’t bother watching stories unless they’re interested in what you do. Not all your followers will watch your stories. The ones that do are really interested. So what can you share with them from behind the scenes in a way that feels right? And I see you know, what if it feels better to you to put a filter on, maybe it’s a silly filter in their head helps you show up more easily do it. And maybe that’s something you become known for if that really aligns with you. Maybe you’re a Mickey Mouse fan and you find this mug May I suppose, where you always do your stories and Mickey Mouse? I don’t know, yeah, there are ways in which you can have some fun with it, and be your authentic self. I also try to remind people that it doesn’t, it doesn’t need to be perfect. You know, when we’re showing up and being our authentic selves, that doesn’t need to be perfect, so I remote make up most days. And so that’s just me and my, how I am. But, you know, sometimes I do show up on stories looking a little rough. And I think that’s okay, turn it, but it takes time you don’t start off being confident or capable. Not sorry, I shouldn’t say not capable, but you don’t start off feeling okay with it, it takes time. So I just think small steps show up in ways which feels okay to you, and start doing it more, and it will get easier. So, you know, one of my clients was like, Oh, I do lots of really interesting things on the weekend. And I don’t really think I’m always like, should I share it? And I’m like, Don’t overthink it. You know, you’re, you’re sharing what you do, in your free time helps people to get to know who you are as a person. And that helps them connect with you. I love to bake. And honestly, the stories where I share any cakes that I’ve made, or behind the scenes baking stuff, get way more views, and you know, anytime I’m talking about marketing,
Hayley Maxwell 46:26
yeah, it’s just about to say I’ve seen some of your cakes, and they look amazing. No one Yeah, I love I love making get using comments and thing. Yeah,
Wendy Tibbotts 46:34
yeah, it’s funny, right? Like, it’s just, I don’t show it every other thing that I’m interested in doing. And, you know, I just, it’s just one of the things, you know, it just helps. Sometimes it gives context into who you are as a person. And that helps share your values, and who you are, you know, as a business. And you know, sometimes I’ll share things out for a walk after picking the kids up or dropping the kids off. And, and even just that, talking about that may be an example of how I’m making, being a business owner work for me. You know, so if we can think about what we share that that feels, feels okay to us, we can just start building on that from them.
Hayley Maxwell 47:19
Exactly, I think you’re thinking about the things that can help you to show your clients that you are relatable, essentially, to them. It’s not about sharing every single thing online, it’s actually just sharing the things that enable people to say, Oh, hey, look, she’s got that that interest, or I do that, or I’m quite interested in doing something like that. So I’ll ask her about it.
Wendy Tibbotts 47:43
Yeah. Oh, or even that, you know, you don’t want to decorate cakes yourself, but you like looking at other people’s. Cake. Sorry, I just it just and it just makes you that three dimensional sort of person, you know, and I think I think it used to be that we we kind of, I think how we show up in business has really changed. It used to be a lot of fake it to make it and you wanted to kind of have this pristine exterior of this is how I am in business. And this is professional. And I think that that has really changed. And I think social media has had a lot to do with that. But I also think people want that reality and want to feel that who they are spending money with, whether it’s big corporates, or small, you know, family owned businesses, they want to know who the people are.
Hayley Maxwell 48:38
Exactly, yeah. Yeah. It’s sorry, it’s just good to say it’s that clear, it’s that sort of cliched saying, you know, people buy from from people essentially, and they like to know, who they are buying from and you, for example, you can have two services that are exactly the same, you could be looking at buying from one of those people, but if you resonate with one person more than the other, you’re going to go with the person that you resonate with the most. So it comes down to allowing yourself to let your personality shine through and let you yourself sort of show some of those quirks interests that you’ve got so that people can begin to feel that connection with you or not. So it comes back again to what we were talking about at the start is, you know, attracting your people to you are repelling people away from you.
Wendy Tibbotts 49:32
And I think in in today’s climate and you know, it’s more important than ever before. We can’t all just show up as like one dimensional businesses, we need to be more than that because that is how you create cut through this how people are going to remember you and that is how you’re going to attract more of those right people. So Yeah, I think in today’s environment, people research before they make purchasing decisions, they look online, they check out your social media, they go on your website, they read your about page, they want to know what, who, who you are as a business. I do that every time before I, when I go on a website to find out about a business, whether it’s mechanics, or it’s a new, you know, a service provider I need for my business. I want to know who they are. And, yeah, so if we can embrace that, as business owners and get used to that we can really help people to get to know us so much easier.
Hayley Maxwell 50:33
Yeah, exactly. And so before you do head off, I always asked my guests three questions. And so the first question is, what does being fierce in business mean to you?
Wendy Tibbotts 50:46
I think that, for me, it means being fierce with how I want to run my business. So here we go, talking about strategy again, but being strategic about the decisions, I’m making my business and my life, I think when I first started my business, as this little mini agency of one person, I believe success meant a bigger office and growing a team and becoming an agency, you know, with big clients, but what I’ve discovered is my version of success is not that anymore. My vision of success is actually quite okay with working from home, working with clients, because it’s a strategic decision for my business, but also for my family. So deciding, you know, that balance of work and family that is that is how I am making decisions in order how I want to grow my business. So yeah, that’s what I think it is, for me.
Hayley Maxwell 51:41
Amazing, strategic, and what is the impact that you’re trying to make with your business?
Wendy Tibbotts 51:48
I really hate saying business owners waste time and money on marketing, that doesn’t work. But I just I can’t stand saying I really would much rather, businesses get the support they need so that, you know, all the hard work, they’re putting in all the effort, the sacrifices and the commitments when they are trying to grow their business and do marketing that they actually get the results they need. So the impact I’m trying to make is just using my skills and experiences and even my own failures, in business learnings to be able to help people to make better decisions that will help grow their business and save them time and money.
Hayley Maxwell 52:27
Yeah, I love that. That’s yeah, that’s awesome. And what about a piece of business advice that maybe you’ve been given throughout your business journey that’s really had an impact on the way that you do business.
Wendy Tibbotts 52:41
So I’ve worked with Natalie toke off, on and off mazing, business coach based in Auckland. And here’s one of the things that she communicated with me was that I could let it be easy. I have a bit of a tendency to overcomplicate or make things harder than they need to be. I think it’s some of those perfectionist tendencies that over delivering or over complicating, even delivering my services. And once I discovered that, if I let it be easy, and that would still work fine. So an example was, when I first started up my group membership results cover, I thought I needed to have a perfect presentation every week for my, for my members. But as I got used to doing it, and actually sort of, you know, net would remind me that I have the expertise and believe in myself, I know what I’m doing. So now I just talk about the topic really easily. And I don’t, or I sometimes I have a presentation, but I don’t have to do spend an hour on a presentation before. So deciding to just almost like own my expertise, and make choices that are actually simpler, has been really Game Changing, changing rather than thinking I needed to always be doing all the things.
Hayley Maxwell 54:06
Yeah, that’s that’s so interesting, isn’t it? Because I think that we do think, and again, it’s that mindset piece that business business has to be hard. You know, you know, we if we’re going to earn money, then, you know, we’ve got to work hard to get that money. And so that means we’ve got to supply all the things in perfect form. And you know, what minutes seems to be perfect for me, I should say. So, yeah, belief
Wendy Tibbotts 54:34
around. If people are paying me for this, then it needs to be a certain way. Because actually, when people choose to work with an expert in a field, they’re they’re choosing to work because of your expert choosing to work with you because of your expertise. And it’s about owning that. And that’s just a journey. I think that’s just just a tax time.
Hayley Maxwell 54:58
Yeah, yeah, sure. does definitely. And so you’ve got results club opening very soon, I believe. So do you want to just let my listeners know about that?
Wendy Tibbotts 55:09
Yes, sir. Results club is my group marketing membership. Basically, I know people are spending time and money on the marketing, and I just want to help them get better results from the time and effort they’re putting in. So it’s a group membership is the doors open on Tuesday, the 25th of October. And there’ll be open until the third of November. So I’m welcoming new members to join us. It is all about coaching, co working and community. So supporting members to to get stuff done. So we have weekly group coaching, weekly accountability and co working session. And we also have, you can get personalized feedback on your project. So after the group coaching session each week, there’s office hours where you can actually say, Wendy, can you have a look at this, you know, I’m struggling with this, have a look. And they know that other members give wonderful feedback as well. And I’m able to go, Ah, this is a really good thing to show and I’m able to show everyone else, you know, maybe it’ll inform a coaching session for the next week. Or it’ll just give someone the feedback they need so that they can actually finish that project, put it out there and start getting results from it. So yeah, we have a Facebook community. I have an online vote, which has just been glamorized up in Kajabi, which is exciting. And, yeah, so results, club membership is 300 plus GST a month. And I say it’s open until the third of November. So if people find out more, they’re welcome to follow me on social media and jump on my website as well.
Hayley Maxwell 56:55
Awesome. I was gonna say I’ll put the link to it in the show notes. And where can people find you if they want to come and find find out more about the results club or come and hang out with you?
Wendy Tibbotts 57:06
Well, it’s as we’re talking about, you don’t have to show up everywhere. My favorite online base for business is Instagram. At the stage I’m really enjoying the genuine authentic connection I get with people on Instagram. So I my business exact marketing is on it at zigzag marketing dot windy. It’s the same handle on Facebook. I’m also on LinkedIn in my website is dub dub dub dot zigzag marketing.co.nz
Hayley Maxwell 57:34
Awesome. Well, thank you so much. It’s been such a treat talking with you.
Wendy Tibbotts 57:39
Thank you. And thanks so much for having me here to talk about marketing. I love it. I’m really enjoying listening to your podcast and all the all the great stuff you’re sharing.
Hayley Maxwell 57:47
Well, I hope you found this episode valuable. I would love to know what your key takeaway was. And if you enjoyed it, please feel free to screenshot this episode and share it on Instagram stories you can tag me in at the Hayley Maxwell. It just helps other people to discover the podcast because it might be something that they can get great learnings from too. Now, I always welcome feedback as well. So please don’t be shy to pop me a DM on Instagram and let me know what you thought what other content or topics that you might want me to cover. And if you don’t want to miss out on future episodes, hit the subscribe button in your favorite podcast player. And until next time, go forth and be fierce.