Brand messaging coach, copywriter, ferocious ice cream eater (not necessarily in that order...)
I'm here to help talented female coaches, consultants, & subject matter experts to roar about what they do with unwavering confidence.
In today’s episode I speak to the mighty Natalie Tolhopf, a sales and mindset coach for women who want to sell with confidence. We talk all about taking imperfect action, busting through mindset blocks, experiencing epic failures, and the true reality of business. No highlight reels here. And it’s a goodie! If you enjoy this episode I’d love you to hit follow or subscribe in your favourite podcast player so you never miss an episode!
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PEOPLE & RESOURCES MENTIONED
Natalie Tolhopf website: www.natalietolhopf.com Natalie Tolhopf Instagram: @natalie_tolhopf_business_coach Allergic To Perfect Facebook Group: www.facebook.com/groups/191153078318538
Hayley Maxwell 0:06
Welcome to the fierce impact podcast. I’m your host, Hayley Maxwell brand clarity and messaging coach, copywriter, ferocious ice cream eater and leopard print lover. If you’re ready to harness the incredible brand building power of words, so you can become memorable, meaningful, and the only real choice for your dream clients, this is the podcast for you. Let’s get started
Well, howdy, howdy, and welcome to Episode 10, of the fierce impact podcast. And today I have my very first guest interview for you. And I’m speaking to the mighty Natalie Tolhopf about Imperfect Action busting through mindset blocks, epic failures, the true reality of business and success, and selling with confidence. So there’s a whole heap of goodness in today’s interview to dig into. But first, let me introduce Natalie to you. After growing her own profitable business and experiencing failed businesses along the way, Natalie Tolhopf knows that success is all about mindset, imperfect action and consistency. For the last decade, Natalie has been a mindset motivator, butt kick facilitator and badass cheerleader for high achieving women in business, teaching them how to drop the self sabotage, and take consistent, imperfect action to grow their business and their revenue with confidence. And so Natalie speaks about the truth and realness of being a woman in business, because she firmly believes that contrary to glossy social media highlights, there’s no such thing as perfect, not in life, and not in business. So without further ado, let’s hop into today’s action packed interview. So welcome to the fifth impact podcast. Natalie, it’s awesome to have you here. And I can’t wait for my listeners to listen to all the gold that I know that you’re going to share with us today. So feel free to introduce yourself and say hi,
Natalie Tolhopf 2:38
hi, amazing listeners and amazing Hayley Maxwell. I’m just super honored to be your first guest. I just I love being able to be on the podcast, especially as the first guests to kind of like be there with you, and have some laughs about it. Especially because we forgot to record the first step, which I think is wonderful, because I’m all for action. Right? So I think it’s the irony is not lost on me. And I think it’s a beautiful thing. But who am I, I help woman so with confidence by taking imperfect action and ditching doubt and just really helping women realize that when you’re in business, the fuel that business needs is cash flow. So you need to understand how to sell be confident around that. And not make it weird, not make it icky. And so I’m a sales coach, they actually karate chop that away so that you actually can have and grow a business that makes you feel really good.
Hayley Maxwell 3:34
And so tell me about your business journey because you haven’t always been a coach have you?
Natalie Tolhopf 3:40
Its kind of a cliche talk about I’ve always been the bridesmaid never the bride I’ve always a massive supporter so always run other people’s businesses. And when I came up to have a go at running my own it’s failed miserably like we’re talking epic failures. And it was a bricks and mortar business so you know that were huge financial failure. And from that, you get scared because it’s fake failure, but then all my brain actually uncomplicated that it’s completely normal. Like it’s actually the 1% of people that go overnight and hit it. I’d actually like to make I’m actually fewer than 1% I want to meet you because I haven’t met someone who overnight you guys can’t see but overnight success it just doesn’t exist but I believed it did because of social media highlight reels. So my first bricks and mortar business didn’t do so well and negative my second online business that I started as a side hustle when I was running a private education business. And again, I was like there’s something wrong with me. The common denominator is me therefore, I’m useless. I don’t know what I’m doing so it fed doubt, it fed imposter and You know, and you go round and round frickin round around the frickin circles, don’t you with that. And then when I started to kind of immerse myself with other businesswoman, I got a coach who was who was MINDSET STRATEGY, which is my philosophy. I can’t hardcore strategize with you. If I don’t really know what’s behind your sabotage. Like, why haven’t Why aren’t you doing the work? Why aren’t you showing up? Let’s talk about it. And so when it was normalized for me that hey, what you are feeling and experiencing is normal. I was like, Oh, wow. We are meant to feel these things in business? Because actually, it’s easier to go have a job. It’s easier to go be employed. Because in business without being, you know, any NLP practitioners will be like that you’re saying things are hard? Well, quite honestly, they are. They can be. And I just want to bring that realism into business.
Hayley Maxwell 5:58
Yeah, it’s just one of those things that really kind of makes, and particularly women in business, I think just really makes us feel quite shitty about ourselves at times. Yeah. Yeah
Natalie Tolhopf 6:10
lot of you were on that show with me as well. I wanted to highlight my clients via like, I wanted to say this is this is the real highlight reels of woman businesses. This is what success looks like, it doesn’t have to be the, you know, the seven figures six figures overnight, then how about we highlight the woman in the engine room right now? So actually, this is success?
Hayley Maxwell 6:37
Yeah, yeah. Cuz, you know, the pathway to success. It’s not not a linear, you know, thing is, it’s, as we all know, it kind of looks like a squiggle on a bit of bit of paper, you know, like, looks like the inside of my brain at times. Tangle journey. And that’s, that’s the truth behind it is that the reality behind those social media highlight reels is that the majority of us, it doesn’t happen quickly, to reach that point of success. And I guess also, it comes down to everyone’s version of success is different, you know, like, and so, and it’s, and it’s always evolving and changing. I don’t ever think that, you know, a version of success is something you suddenly like, reach and you go, yes, I’ve kind of made it. It’s only when you stop sometimes, and you look back on what you’ve done and accomplished and how far you’ve kind of come that you go, Oh, crikey, actually, I have made a lot of really good decisions. And I’ve had lots of ups and downs. But yeah, look how far I’ve come and what I’ve achieved
Natalie Tolhopf 7:48
100% a great success. You think you know what you want, and you start the journey and it starts evolve and change, which is why we need consistent action and business not scary and constant learning, because you don’t actually know until you’re in and moving and taking action. So I love that your rights, moves and changes as your you see your staff and what you what you really think you need, as opposed to externally looking at to this is what success looks like.
Hayley Maxwell 8:14
Yeah, absolutely. And so when it comes to some of that sort of self-sabotage, from the perspective of women in business, what are some of those key things that sort of stopped women in their tracks, essentially,
Natalie Tolhopf 8:33
I think just not realizing that sabotage is just you coming out of your comfort zone, and the powers of net when you come out of comfort? Sometimes your comfort can be weird, because it’s other people. It’s like, you’re high pressure, you’re always on. You know, you’re constantly second guessing like some people that’s the comfort zone, they don’t know it’s it’s really, really recognizing, what is your comfort zone, as soon as you come out of your comfort zone, your your body, your reptile brain is built to keep you safe. As soon as it thinks you’re gonna go out of safety, your thoughts, your bad thoughts, your negative thoughts, you’re, you know, looking for evidence that it’s wrong at all just turns itself up. It’s noisy as shit as you’re growing. But people don’t talk about it enough. Because you think, oh, there’s something wrong with me. I’m scared. I’m not going to do it. Okay, I won’t do it. And you can talk yourself out of things, as opposed to just bringing a lot of awareness to the sabotage the doubt, the procrastination, you’ve got to look what sits behind it. And it all comes from our experiences from childhood. It’s all about trauma responses. It’s the core belief work, which it’s never frickin ending. It’s, you know, it’s been, oh, you’re an onion. It’s just you’re peeling it back all the time. And I know this to be true. I’ve worked with what I would call, you know, a traditional successful one who just distributes the heat of a lot of us, they still deal with the stuff we are dealing with now. But we think you shouldn’t have or be when you’re a certain place. And it’s like, well, that’s BS, they just actually get faster at what it is identifying it, moving through it, and actually not making it about them. They go, this isn’t big enough to keep me moving forward to my goal. So I’m just going to carry on.
Hayley Maxwell 10:29
Yeah, that’s really interesting, because I think so often we look at people who we believe, you know, further ahead than us, you know, they’ve got, you know, bigger businesses that earning more money, and we kind of think, Oh, they’ve got it all sorted out, you know, they, they’re in the know, you know, they’ve obviously found the secret to business success. And it’s actually not always the case, is it?
Natalie Tolhopf 10:57
Listen, I am obsessed, I’m going to quest to find greatness. It’s just an obsession. What makes someone more successful than someone else? And as you said, you can’t see the quote, who’s better? What is that more success to begin with? And what is it? It’s not the magic wand, because trust me, I’ve downloaded a lot of things like many of your listeners to find this elusive magic. And it just, it doesn’t exist, what exists is your commitment to making a strategy work. And it will usually need more time they will ever believe it could take two years for the strategy to take off. But it needs your commitment. And so you become that secret sauce at the end of it, you become that magic, which is extremely cliche, I know. But that’s when the buck stops. And that’s what I believe men are really good at because they can compartmentalize, meaning if something doesn’t work, or it’s not working. They don’t make it about themselves.
Hayley Maxwell 12:00
Yeah, that’s true, isn’t it? Why do you think that women have a tendency to do that?
Natalie Tolhopf 12:06
I just from how I’ve been brought up we look, we don’t just look after ourselves, we look after family and children. So we inherently go what’s the impact on me and everyone else? And I’m not saying it mean, don’t think like that. But just DNA wise, a woman will take it on board, just because of the complexities of how we think about things.
Hayley Maxwell 12:28
Yeah, absolutely. And so what would you say is kind of the number one mindset block that you would say the majority of your clients have, like the one that keeps you keep hearing over and over and over again, that comes
Natalie Tolhopf 12:44
back to worthiness? I don’t know enough, yet. I’m not enough. Right? Yeah. And it’ll play out somewhere. And what’s interesting is because I’m a recovering, perfectionist, and become now allergic to perfect, and I attract a lot of women who are like, Oh, I’m a perfectionist. And then we’ll say, well, let’s just see what happens in the high achiever piece in our small pop out, quite sneakily, to believe that we’re not really. But to answer the question directly is the enough that’s the enoughness, which goes back to people pleasing, which goes back to so many things.
Hayley Maxwell 13:23
So how would we, what are some of the things that we can do to kind of try and counteract that, I guess, if it’s something that we are strug gling with?
Natalie Tolhopf 13:35
What I love about the whole people pleasing, but I’m not enough, and I don’t know enough yet, and I need to go learn more. That’s a form of imposter. As people like imagined for you, Hayley, if people came and paid you for your amazing work, which would work is amazing, by the way, and still, you just working within your brightness. And if all you ever did was sick and guess, wiring, if it was enough, I’m going to get that energy and be paying for that matter piece in you instead of your guide. As you know what I do know what I’m doing. I’m gonna give it my all. And so that so you, then you then place the person. Does that make sense if we’re constantly that people pleasing, and actually does the opposite, because I’m not getting your full energy? Yeah, I know. That’s a little bit a weird way of saying it. So I hope that
Hayley Maxwell 14:28
makes sense. Yeah, that makes sense. Because, you know, if you’re spending all your time focused on I’m, I’m, I’m not enough, or maybe this isn’t good enough, or you know, why has this person chosen to work with me? Then it is going to drain a lot of that energy that otherwise you wouldn’t be able to give to the client?
Natalie Tolhopf 14:50
Yeah, I’d love to give you an example for even for me, even recently, and this is why our work super done. And I just want us hopefully we’re all gonna agree on that. Someone comes to work with you. And you’re like, why did they come to work with me? I better go get better. Don’t like what? I haven’t done. Any of us go work with someone can we fit doesn’t know what they don’t know. So straight away, you know your thoughts, you think your thoughts your thoughts aren’t necessarily true. So for me, I know that this amazing client, and straightaway I’m like, Oh, she’s corporate, I’ve been a I can feel I could feel, you know, start to be a little bit more corporate, and then corporate my responses and corporate my emails. And then for a minute, I was like, hang on a sec, because I could feel myself Google searching to learn more about something. And I’m like, actual fudge cakes are you doing right now? And what stopped me was that whole thing? She has been attracted, why am I marketing? Now marketing does two-thirds repels an attract? I don’t I’m on my way to repel. So that I can attract strongly, fiercely the right people. So she shows up, but this marketing, and she feels and gets to meet someone completely opposite, because I’m second guessing myself. She’s gonna be like, What the hell is this? I thought I was getting bet. So that really made me stop. Lean into my intonation, my understanding my opinion, my years of understanding of something, and gave her that instead of trying to mainstream cookie cutter.
Hayley Maxwell 16:31
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And I really love that because I think it just shows that as a, as a business owner, in the face of a business, essentially, you kind of really need to lean into who you are, what your values are all of those things that you just spoke about. Because otherwise you aren’t going to attract the people that really align with that or that want more that want that in a business coach or sales coach, that sort of thing. So I think it’s really it’s a really important message, isn’t it? As we often think that we’ve got to be a particular way in business. And you’re right, you know, you can feel like sometimes you get certain clients and you think you’ve got to kind of shape yourself to be more like them. But actually, they came to you for a reason.
Natalie Tolhopf 17:16
Yeah. Which, which is, I think, to go back to Krishna, but you know, how do you how do you stop that part of yourself that people pleasing stuff, if you do do sales calls, or discovery calls to talk to each other to see if you’ve got to help each other and be the right fit? Really good question is, and this is something I asked. It’s not to stroke my own ego, it’s to really check in to see but to remind myself of why they’ve chosen me. So I asked, I said, Why, why have you chosen me. And they’ll usually say, beautiful thing, which is really lovely. But actually, what they’ve done is they’ve described the version of themselves that they haven’t linked into, or been open enough or courageous enough to bring into their own work. So if you ask that question, you’re going to hear why they need you. And that changes the game for people pleaser.
Hayley Maxwell 18:08
Yeah, absolutely. So I guess another thing that I’d really like to talk about is, um, because it’s a message of yours that I really love, and that I really kind of connect with, and that I remind myself on a very, very regular basis is around that whole, you know, allergic to perfect, taking imperfect action. And so, what do you believe in when it comes to that allergic to perfect message?
Natalie Tolhopf 18:33
Yeah, so the reason why I’m so passionate about it as by trade, so from 17 to about or 24. I am a chef by trade. So for that many years, I worked in Europe, and worked with some of the most top chefs. So I was traditionally trained before that for three years, I did an apprenticeship. It’s a paid apprenticeship, I get to go to work, got to go to uni and was paid doing it. I had high expectations put on me. Now, you have to have a level of perfection to be a really good sheep because you’re relentlessly producing the same thing 100 times and then doing it again the next six nights and then for lunch. So I was highly drilled to the fiction work, which helps me now to transferable skill moves on plus actionless plans, I can do it with my eyes closed, because that’s how I’ve been trained. The issue is done. And actually helped me see that when I worked with some of the top chefs, they were not qualified. What that means is beer intonation, the creative in that shift dishes came from engine room learning as opposed to this is the way you have to do it. Right. So a lot of us was like, Well, I’ve got to have that qualification. Look at You’re a frickin brain surgeon, please get qualified guys when I’m giving them insane, right? So I have a business coach, I had no qualifications. But I’ve got 10 to five businesses under my belt I should shut know what not to do. And I’m sitting with a high success at the moment. So I don’t know what to do. For me. We when I hire people, I love to hire people who hadn’t learned from, I’m not dismissing complications. But I would much rather take someone who had gotten a reader got dirty, and someone who thinks they know what it is. So what I learned from that shifting piece is to be because I want to be awesome, I want to be great, that’s the highest children. And there’s nothing wrong with perfection. Because perfection brings greatness. It’s when we drive from people pleasing, perfection, and not enough mass perfection, that shit goes wrong. It come from a place of greatness with perfection, you can be the greatest chef, you can be the greatest business owner, because you take your discipline, your high need for being the best, and doing a great job because integrity wise, we want to do a really good job. But when we layer that was your inner mentor, your inner creativity, your own way of doing something, it changes the game, because there’s a real intention change.
Hayley Maxwell 21:22
And so how so if you’re stuck in that cycle of everything’s got to be perfect. Before I put it out into the world? How do you how do you actually get past that as a business owner? Because I can see that it would hold a lot of people back from actually producing stuff from getting that first iteration out. Yeah, that kind of thing.
Natalie Tolhopf 21:45
So good question, because I believe there isn’t any other way. But to give it a go, like what you fear already exists, right? So that person fears, I’m not going to get a client. If I put it out wrong. I’m not going to no one’s going to read it. So I won’t write it. So what they’re fearing by not taking the action is already happening. For me, man, it’s as simple as this. If you want a fit, strong, muscular body, you can’t think about it, to go into it. With business, yes, you’re gonna feel awkward, you’re gonna feel a little bit stupid, it’s gonna hurt. But you know what, you’re gonna get better next time, you’re gonna be like, I know what I’m doing. Okay, the next thing right on the left here, it’s a journey. And you’ve just got to go on it.
Hayley Maxwell 22:33
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. What do you think from a business coaching perspective is really important for clients to be to be looking out for, I guess, because, you know, it seems like, you know, online, essentially, it seems like there are so many different options and different choices. And it’s, you know, there’s a lot of the highlight reel stuff that goes on. So I guess it can be really hard trying to navigate that whole online environment where people are saying, Who do I Who do I choose? How do I know who’s going to actually be able to help me? Yeah. Like, how do you navigate that, I guess, as a potential, like, as a client in terms of looking for someone that’s going to be able to support you in business?
Natalie Tolhopf 23:21
Yeah, I think I think you’ve touched on this well, before and some of the other podcasts where you’re going to know on a physical level, if you feel Yeah, what a key off, you’re like, oh, no, is that what does she mean? But you know, so you kind of think, you know, you’re gonna care about people over promising like, as soon as you know that, you’ve got to have some of the integrity who’s like, we can give this stuff a go. But there’s no magic wands in which this is going to happen. It’s like with women who and who have with advertising, feel like Facebook ads are not the magic wand, all these other things have to happen. So I think you just need to be looking out for people who aren’t over promising and actually show real testimonials, not the one the one off stuff. And you’ve spoken about it so beautifully before, it’s really important. Because I felt the social media highlight reels, I felt for the whole do this funnel and this will happen. And sometimes it will work but most of the time, it’s because people put 10s of 1000s of dollars down a funnel to see if it’s worked and tested. So I think again, it comes to just having conversations with coaches what feels right what lands right really trust, your inner your, your intuition, it’s gonna feel right.
Hayley Maxwell 24:42
The last thing that I’d really like to talk to you about is around the the sales side of things because again, another message that you know, I love that you share is that sales is just a conversation. And again, that’s something that kind of I always have ringing in my head that really helps me to kind of take some of that stress or nervousness kind of out of it. It’s like, actually, this is just a conversation, like, it’s two people in business, talking and saying, hey, you know, this is what I do. This is how I can help you. And it really doesn’t need to be kind of harder than that. So the what are some of the things that you see people worrying about when it comes to selling? And then what are some of the key pieces of advice in terms of how someone can actually take that imperfect action? And go ahead and sell with with confidence?
Natalie Tolhopf 25:40
Yeah, good question. So when I built my first, a second business that didn’t do well, I had all the bells and whistles, I had this fancy funnels, I had the fancy website, I had all the fancy fences, but I didn’t have the confidence. And so these are real close in that sales is a conversation, but selling with confidence is better. So when you confidently understand the results you can get somewhere, what it does is it changes the game to attract the right people, and sounds as a conversation because you have to listen, if you have a conversation with the right person, and you hear the language or the problems they had, and you know, in your heart, your confidence will tell you, holy shit, I can really help this person. And you won’t have to guess what to save. Because you’ll be like, I understand where you’re at, you could give some examples, but you’re going to confidently be able to diagnose where they’re at, and you won’t need to sell because you’re going to be able to articulate back to them and your confidence, hey, look, I’ve got this really cool solution. To help with these things. Someone’s going to hear the genuineness of that, and you’re going to sell. So when I had the bells and whistles, I relied on no conversation to Sam. And for some people, they can nail that we’re dear automations because it’s a matrix into their lives, then sheer volume of numbers we’re seeing the things will convert. But I always challenge my client, your core understanding of your business and the problems you’d solve. You should be able to sell on a conversation at the end of the day, conversing, listening, diagnosing, making an offer. That’s all that matters.
Hayley Maxwell 27:32
Yeah, yeah, that’s really true. And I think, like you’re just saying about them about listening as well. And I think often the art and the skill of actually listening is is forgotten. Like, because we’re so often thinking about, what am I going to say next? How am I going to phrase this? How am I going to make sure this is just right that we actually forget to really deeply listen to what people are saying to us,
Natalie Tolhopf 28:01
you’re correct. And so if a high achiever doesn’t know that you’re a people pleasing, perfectionist, they will constantly overwhelmed, because they’re constantly wanting to be seen, of giving and having value. So they outsource their worth. And if you don’t have a conversation, you’re constantly throwing value at people, I can do this and this and this and this, and this and this guy, the person says, like, I’m so full, I’m overwhelmed. I can’t make a decision. Because we’re trying to explore like validation. So when we talk when we get a no, we’re like, oh, my gosh, we take it back to ourselves again. So when we know why we operate that way, like this, but you see, we can take a breath step back, it’s just a conversation. Make sure you’re having conversations with the right people, which is why we’re going to go back to core business. What do you do? Three out? What’s the solutions? Just take the complexity away from it, then you can build on some really solid foundations. But it is also okay to have direct conversations like if someone books a call with me. We’re going to have some direct conversation because otherwise why are you on a call with me? You always want to look how to work with me. So it’d be frickin weird if I kept over talking silences? Didn’t say would you like to do it? Yeah, right. So it’s also paid for permission to not over over talk when we go here’s the prices back. And I think you had on a good note before to about you know, you know, someone who wants to go out there and give it a go on this. That would be first generation. There’s no one drop the mic moment, you’re not going to get it right. None of us get it right on the first go. So you have to just let that go. It’s it’s a it’s a paradigm you’ve created that if I don’t first the right time. I’m not going to have to go on the journey. You have to go on a business journey. The biggest personal discovery you’re ever gonna have to go on. There’s no fast track is fast track with support and these Fast Track with copy. But actually, you’ve got to work on inside your confidence because you could give them the best things. But unless you’re prepared to go out there and start actually taking imperfect action, you’re still not going to win.
Hayley Maxwell 30:12
Yeah, yeah. And I really love that. And so just to wrap up this call, I like to ask sort of three that I’ve got three questions that I’m going to be asking my guests. And so the first of these is, you know, what does being fierce in business mean to you?
Natalie Tolhopf 30:32
Yes, such a cool question. So for me, it’s about being unstoppable. She’s unstoppable. You’re unstoppable. I’m unstoppable. But not from that horrible hustle mentality, but feeling fully resourced in yourself, that you’re unstoppable on your quest for greatness that you’re unstoppable to make your business and your life happy. For me. That’s what that is.
Hayley Maxwell 30:55
What kind of faith impact are you wanting to make on the world with your work?
Natalie Tolhopf 31:02
It’s just that whole, I want to normalize what successes and so it doesn’t have to be that 1% or overnight, get where you’re at is really great. One done, you know what I want that impact to be. And this is cliche, but if I can, you can, but seriously, you can, and just really want to normalize, that people can have the businesses they want. My impact is that I just want to bring that realism, but also that confidence to be able to sell and take imperfect action.
Hayley Maxwell 31:33
Finally, what would you say is the one piece of advice that do you’ve been given? Yeah, that you have felt has made a big difference to your business?
Natalie Tolhopf 31:46
Yeah, we we touched on early in when we first started. And this This is from Mary Morrissey. She’s passed away now. She was a great thought leader, you are not your results. So you inherently aren’t your bed November. Right? And whereas we can attach our results and make music about how I’m inherently AM, oh, my business isn’t working. That means I’m inherently a bad person not doesn’t. Soon as I understood that I’m not my results. It really helped me to detach from wanting to constantly look at what I had hadn’t been more or making it mean something about satisfying a bit. Yeah, you’re not your results, and you’re not your thoughts. Because your thoughts, so they aren’t always true.
Hayley Maxwell 32:33
Yeah, I think that’s a really awesome place to to leave it. So thank you so much for the wisdom and the knowledge and the awesomeness that you’ve shared. It’s yeah, it’s been a blast. Thank you
Hayley Maxwell 32:45
I know. And also, so if my listeners want to check you out, where can they come along and stalk you?
Natalie Tolhopf 32:54
So stalk me on social and stuff, Facebook, and obviously my website where you make it to get read some coolers coffee? And yeah, so just naturally told us.com Come and find me. We can hang out and I’ve got a group called allergic to perfect. So if you’re looking for some help in that area, you can also come over here.
Hayley Maxwell 33:14
Yeah, absolutely. And I’ll put all of those links in the show notes as well so people can just hop straight into it. So thank you so much. It’s been awesome. Yay.